[Tulse]

SSIGuy is very well known for stipulating things that happen in his head alone as facts and ignoring any external information source that doesn't align with his personal fictional fact sheet.

I've heard of a new job opening in the transit sector that he'd be perfect for...

 

[Palma]

I recall a 4" difference in width, but I can not find the source now.

4" is the same as saying they are the same width

 

[BurlOak]

Yeah. The TTC internally hates ICTS, and seems to be willing to do anything to end its use. Metrolinx for a long time was trying to convince the TTC to do a continuous ICTS Eglinton - SRT, but the TTC was having nothing of it.

Add to that the TTC's refusal to do contracting through Infrastructure Ontario, or a single contract instead of its piece by piece approach, and a picture emerges of a power hungry organization desperately trying to defend its fiefdom.

2 Questions. I admitadly did not do a comprehensive search, but I thought I’d ask here instead:

1. Are there any examples of ICTS that are elevated and covered? I was thinking to keep snow off, but maybe covered to reduce noise may have also been done.

2. Are there any examples of LRT that are elevated? Would the overhead cables be an even greater visual distraction.

 

[smallspy]

Toronto subways are purposfully run in "low-rate" mode. There is a switch somewhere that could set them (T1's at least) into "high-rate" and they would magically accelerate faster. There is some debate about why we run in low-rate mode because the TTC official story isn't terribly believable (throws off signal timings or something like that; so why not change the signal timings?)

Various officials will tell their own parts of it - which may or may not be true as well - but at least one major part of the story is that in high rate mode it is expected that more maintenance will be required on the traction motors and gearboxes, as they will be working harder. This was actually given in a report many years ago about the installation of the Speed Control System on the subway and why it wouldn't be activated on the B-D line until the H4 cars were retired. Of course, as it is SCS is only currently active on the Sheppard Line despite all of the equipment system-wide having it installed.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[rbt]

1. Are there any examples of ICTS that are elevated and covered? I was thinking to keep snow off, but maybe covered to reduce noise may have also been done.

I really wish they didnt' take the name ICTS (Intermediate Capacity Transit System) as a product name because a very large number of other systems have the similar capacities; such as Frankfurt's U-Bahn system or even Sheppard Subway as currently installed (4-car trains, minimal and defective speed control system).

Anyway, I don't think there are elevated and covered ICTS installations. Installations which experience snow include Toronto, Vancouver, New York (JFK airport) and Detroit.

 

[Darwinkgo]

2 Questions. I admitadly did not do a comprehensive search, but I thought I’d ask here instead:

1. Are there any examples of ICTS that are elevated and covered? I was thinking to keep snow off, but maybe covered to reduce noise may have also been done.

2. Are there any examples of LRT that are elevated? Would the overhead cables be an even greater visual distraction.

From Lineman over at SSP:

 

[CDL.TO]

2. Are there any examples of LRT that are elevated? Would the overhead cables be an even greater visual distraction.

Ones that are elevated for at least part of their route? Probably too many to list.

 

[BurlOak]

Ones that are elevated for at least part of their route? Probably too many to list.

So why is elevated LRT not considered for parts of Eglinton?

The big problem with Eglinton LRT is that a 5 to 7 km stretch of a 30 km long line (from Black Creek to Sheppard/Markham) is median and the rest is grade separated. There is a kilometre or so between Brentcliffe and Don Mills that could easily be moved to the south side of the road – and I believe that Steve Munro advocates for this as well. This leaves a 5 to 6 km stretch from somewhere East of Don Mills to somewhere near Kennedy (since both Don Mills and Kennedy will be underground) as the weakest link on the route.

How much would it cost to elevate this portion? Median LRT is about $50M/km and costs I have seen from Vancouver are about $100M/km. So it is a matter of an extra $300M or $400M. I wouldn't pay the $2 to $2.5B extra that is needed to bury the entire line, but a few hundred million is not excessive.

When it comes to extension to the airport, there is plenty of room in the Richview corridor that the line could be elevated, trenched, or covered. So without too significant of a cost premium, it is possible to have a high capacity LRT line across the entire city.

At Sheppard, I see a bit of logic in continuing the subway, but there the distances paint a different picture. A 5 km long existing subway would need extensions of 8km East and 5km West. It may be better just to view the existing subway as a lost, sunk cost and proceed in another manner. For Finch, it is even more difficult to make any argument for subway.

 

[M II A II R II K]

So why is elevated LRT not considered for parts of Eglinton?

If the job were done properly with priority there would be no need for slow downs or stopping at red lights between stops, and even no need for crossing bars.

Also if an American city of all places can pull that off recently. There's no excuse for a botched job here.

 

[Dan416]

If the job were done properly with priority there would be no need for slow downs or stopping at red lights between stops, and even no need for crossing bars.

Also if an American city of all places can pull that off recently. There's no excuse for a botched job here.

Do you trust the TTC to do it properly?

 

[M II A II R II K]

If those LRTs end up stopping at red lights in between and end up slowing it down for whatever reason then they fucked it up. Especially when it could have been given proper priority.

 

[Paleo]

Do you trust the TTC to do it properly?

Obviously it's an insurmountable problem so we should flush $8 billion to grade separate everything as the logical next step.

 

[Solid Snake]

Obviously it's an insurmountable problem so we should flush $8 billion to grade separate everything as the logical next step.

I think there's a general consensus (except the Fords maybe) that elevated should be the best choice east of Laird, underground at Don Mills and Kennedy.

I would prefer they spend the extra $$$ on elevated then hve the TTC run an LRt at grade in the middle of the road. I don't trust the TTC to operate an median ROW LRT at grade. There I said it.

 

[BurlOak]

I think there's a general consensus (except the Fords maybe) that elevated should be the best choice east of Laird, underground at Don Mills and Kennedy.

I would prefer they spend the extra $$$ on elevated then hve the TTC run an LRt at grade in the middle of the road. I don't trust the TTC to operate an median ROW LRT at grade. There I said it.

I do not sense a consensus in reading these posts. I think many people think at-grade is preferable to elevated even if there were no cost difference. If is even preferable to underground since you can see the street. Maybe it is just ideology to oppose anything from Ford.

If there were a consensus, or even a thought that elevated was nearly as good as at-grade, someone would have done a better job costing to see what exactly (the estimated) cost difference is. What I find surprising is not that Ford, a novice in the field of transit, does not consider elevated rail, but that no one at the TTC or Metrolinx offered this as an affordable compromise. I have yet to hear Ford say he would not accept an elevated line.

 

[Amy Rose]

If those LRTs end up stopping at red lights in between and end up slowing it down for whatever reason then they fucked it up. Especially when it could have been given proper priority.

the drivers can time it so that they can get their LRVs through greens