Solid Snake
Active Member
Webster being fired will change a lot in the coming months
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EnviroTO
Senior Member
Yes, all of a sudden the TTC will say cancelling surface transit is improving transit, and subways going perpendicular to where people riding transit are actually wanting to go are revenue generators and the highest priority transit expense. The TTC will agree that there is a wealth of private money to finance subways. Subway studies will become the proof that Ford cares about transit even though none get built, much like how launching high-speed rail studies somehow is supposed to equate to caring about VIA rail while at the same time contemplating privatization. Maybe the TTC will be privatized as well so we can accelerate the pay more to get less formula that has happened in many places where such privatization has occurred.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
The TTC did everything humanly possible to screw up the SRT.
First they didn't put in the geating mechanism.
Second, they spent a small fortune reconfigurating the cars themselves so they could pay someone $30/hr to make sure the doors close.
Third, by not automating the system the system is not as efficient and due to the drivers excessively using the brakes stronger than they were designed for, the brakes wore out which wouldn't have happened if they had run the thing automated like it was designed for.
Fourth, by not improving the GO underpass and tigth curves they were not able to transfer to the new MK111 trains which are fantastic vehicles. The MK1 cars haven't been built since the mid-90s which just reinforces the poor attitude the populas has towards the system.
You can give all the excuses you want but the it doesn't change the fact that Vancouver used it's ALRT into a very good system and Toronto took the same technology and created a poor one.
First they didn't put in the geating mechanism.
Second, they spent a small fortune reconfigurating the cars themselves so they could pay someone $30/hr to make sure the doors close.
Third, by not automating the system the system is not as efficient and due to the drivers excessively using the brakes stronger than they were designed for, the brakes wore out which wouldn't have happened if they had run the thing automated like it was designed for.
Fourth, by not improving the GO underpass and tigth curves they were not able to transfer to the new MK111 trains which are fantastic vehicles. The MK1 cars haven't been built since the mid-90s which just reinforces the poor attitude the populas has towards the system.
You can give all the excuses you want but the it doesn't change the fact that Vancouver used it's ALRT into a very good system and Toronto took the same technology and created a poor one.
waltthizzney
New Member
from riding the skytrain in Vancouver compared to Toronto , the first thing I noticed is how insanely loud, creeky and rough the ride was here compared to Vancouver, be it the old expo cars or the new ones
Paleo
Active Member
Didn't the Vancouver system shutdown last time there was snowfall?
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
Vancouver is a lot less prepared for snow than Toronto because a massive snowfall is such a rare event. If you had a heavy rail subway that traveled overground in Vancouver, it would probably still shut down in the snow.
Secondly, it's not hard to build some kind of corrugated steel roof over the Skytrain/SRT tracks to prevent the tracks from getting snowed in. This is actually pretty cheap. The reason Vancouver hasn't done this is because big snowfalls are rare enough that it's not worth the cost.
ICTS is a pretty versatile technology if you know how to use it correctly. Vancouver knows how to do this, and Toronto doesn't. If you gave Vancouver the $8.2 billion that we're spending on Eglinton to build grade separated skytrain, they would be able to built 65 km worth.
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denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
Exactly. Toronto has poor planning above all else.
JWBF
Senior Member
Although the TTC and Toronto are knee deep in the blame over ICTS/ART, the then current provincial government did a good job of complicating things.
BurlOak
Senior Member
I was thinking of a Plexiglass roof (and walls) over the track when elevated (i.e. on Eglinton through Scarborough and parallel to Ellesmere) - similar to the clear noise walls the MTO has put on on the sides of highways and even over bridges (i.e. through St. Catharines). In the rail corridor, a simpler solution of corrugated steel could be used.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Actually the heating mechanisms are not expensive. 2 years ago Vancouver got POUNDED over the holidays with 60 cm of snow and the temps were cold enough that the snow didn't melt for three weeks. Even in Toronto 50 cm is a very major snowfall but not once did the SkyTrain stop running. They simply has one of the MK1 cars run all night on the route to keep the line clear and when the system is automated it costs bery little.
The MK111 trains also don't have the vibration and noise of the MK1 due to better suspension and weighing more as they are the length of 3 MK1 cars. The new trains are a completely differewnt animal from the crates Toronto runs.
The MK111 trains also don't have the vibration and noise of the MK1 due to better suspension and weighing more as they are the length of 3 MK1 cars. The new trains are a completely differewnt animal from the crates Toronto runs.
waltthizzney
New Member
uh not quite, it snowed less than a foot and it stuck around for a couple days... quit exaggerating
Jonny5
Senior Member
The blame for Toronto's ICTS problems lies not with the TTC, but with an Ontario government from several decades ago for inventing the piece of junk in the first place.
Of course Vancouver's is better. Toronto got the beta version and Vancouver got the version with all the bugs worked out from Toronto's experience.
Of course Vancouver's is better. Toronto got the beta version and Vancouver got the version with all the bugs worked out from Toronto's experience.
BurlOak
Senior Member
If the bugs are mostly worked out, then Toronto is foolish for not considering its use. Others are profitting from Ontario's initial investments and bad experiences.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
I don't know what part of Vancouver you were in but the snow was up to my knees. It started around the 20th and the streets weren't totally cleared til mid January.
As I have always extending the SRT along Eglinton is not only the cheapest option but also the fastest. Only in Toronot would someone even consider replacing a 6 km system with another 6km system that runs slower with lower capacity.
This idea that Toronto "doesn't have the funds" is crap. No other city on the planet gets $8.2 billion given to them for mass/rapid transit and are not asked to contribute one dime. Then again only in Toronto would you get only 20km of new transit for $8.2 billion.
nfitz
Superstar
Last time I checked, the plan that gave us only 20 km of new transit for $8.2 billion was only a proposal by Mayor Rob Ford - which clearly wasn't a serious proposal, as he never even bothered to send it to council for approval. What council approved in 2009, 2010, and confirmed this year, is 61 km (for Phase I) for that price - as shown on the TTC website - www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Projects_and_initiatives/Transit_city/Current_Projects/index.jsp
Which seems like a bargain, compared to projects in other big cities - such as the Second Avenue subway in New York City which is only 13.7 km and budget at US$17 billion - and Crossrail in London which adds 21 km of new service through central London (and adds service to existing track) for £15.9 billion (CAN$ 25 billion).