|
|
|
BurlOak
Senior Member
With this Stintz plan, how far will the SRT be extended. I believe that Transit City had it extended to at least Sheppard since Sheppard East and the SRT would share storage facilities. Has there been any confirmation of this?
Eug
Senior Member
I didn't think Ford's Sheppard plan was a viable option either, but that was the (unintended) beauty of it. The comparison became a heavily compromised approach to Sheppard (Transit City), vs. no Sheppard at all (Ford). I preferred the latter, because it made the Eglinton X-town a true continuous rapid transit line.
In any case, I think what's going to happen now - if Transit City's Eglinton X-town get's built - is people from STC will take the line down to Kennedy and then switch to the Danforth subway, which will make TC's argument that ridership along Eglinton at grade will be low, a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Northern Magus
Active Member
Eug
Senior Member
Using the same argument for LRT there, and some have already made this argument, it would have actually been cheaper to build out that run using BRT... until funding for a subway could be secured.
Building LRT there ensures subway will never be built, and adds to the surface gridlock permanently.
Paleo
Active Member
Northern Magus
Active Member
I've never understood the theory that somehow Scarborough needs more subway lines (3) than downtown Toronto (2 - YUS being one line). Because that's what Ford's fantasy amounted to. This, from the guy who was supposedly against wasteful spending, and all for living within one's means.
If an at-grade ROW on Eglinton from Kennedy to Laird is such a shortcoming to some people, they should support the conversion of the midtown line to commuter trains. That will give much faster travel from Scarborough to the YUS line than a subway ever could, for a cost that will be attractive to anyone. Complementing the TC LRTs and a future DRL, it would provide a very reasonable rapid transit mix.
Last edited:
Eug
Senior Member
But like I said before, that was the (unintended) attractiveness of his plan. He had no money for Sheppard, and didn't budget for it either, which meant it wouldn't get built. Perfect.
True, but then again that might mean it gets built in 70 years... or not. If the Sheppard LRT gets built, subway there will be an extremely low priority.
However, all that said, I'd just be happy if this all means they will do some real work on the Eglinton line NOW. Stop with the futzing around already.
Last edited:
Northern Magus
Active Member
Hahahahaha I love hearing these myths. Repeating them over and over won't make them true.
LRT on Yonge and Bloor streets sure didn't prevent subways eventually being built there, now did it? Sure seems to me that those streetcars did a great job of paving the way.
LRT ROWs cut through gridlock. And an LRT network cuts through more gridlock for more people.
What this debate centred around is how to best distribute a very limited amount of money on transit projects. Common sense prevailed.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
That is only HALF the debate.
It has always also been about what KIND of transit expansion is needed in Toronto. TC is far better transit but is by no means rapid. The station spacing is for local service..every 2 to 3 blocks with no over/underpasses. It will also have to wait for some lights as you cannot have signal priority all the time when trains are arriving in every 90 seconds {from both directions} and still have to contend with advanced left-hand turns.
If Toronto wants expansive rapid transit then it should built the LRT like that as opposed to a slow moving system.
It's funny but despite the true need of affordable transit the TC supporters have never come out and shown how TC will be any faster or more reliable than just running articulated buses along their own ROW using POP. Exactly the same makeup but will save monsterous amounts on the Finch and Sheppard and yet be just as fast and even more reliable as buses can manuever around potential accidents along the route.
It has always also been about what KIND of transit expansion is needed in Toronto. TC is far better transit but is by no means rapid. The station spacing is for local service..every 2 to 3 blocks with no over/underpasses. It will also have to wait for some lights as you cannot have signal priority all the time when trains are arriving in every 90 seconds {from both directions} and still have to contend with advanced left-hand turns.
If Toronto wants expansive rapid transit then it should built the LRT like that as opposed to a slow moving system.
It's funny but despite the true need of affordable transit the TC supporters have never come out and shown how TC will be any faster or more reliable than just running articulated buses along their own ROW using POP. Exactly the same makeup but will save monsterous amounts on the Finch and Sheppard and yet be just as fast and even more reliable as buses can manuever around potential accidents along the route.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Sheppard will be a subject of a separate vote 2 weeks from now.
But note that Ford's plan also left Finch West out; now it is back on the table.
Queue-jump lanes on Finch would improve the speed, but would not increase capacity (and Ford's team did not have specific plans even for the queue-jump lanes).
It should be noted that Ford's solution would create another problem. Fully underground LRT would be a high-speed but relatively low-capacity line. If a lot of riders traveling from Scarborough choose to stay on ECLRT instead of switching to Danforth subway, there won't be enough capacity left for riders boarding at Don Mills.
Don Mills is a place where multiple passenger flows towards Yonge have to converge:
- Eglinton westbound
- Lawrence westbound (since Lawrence has a gap between Leslie and Bayview)
- Flemmington Park residents going towards Yonge
- Transfers from Don Mills bus towards Yonge / Eglinton.
If they decided to combine Eglinton with SRT, they have to do smart capacity management: run more frequent service from Don Mills towards Yonge, and between Kennedy and STC. In that case, the section between Don Mills and Kennedy can have lower frequency (say 5 min instead of 2.5 min), and street-median alignment is good enough.
Last edited:
nfitz
Superstar
Transit City benefits fare more people in Scarborough than Ford's plan. Even the portions that were funded. Stintz's presentation at the council meeting made that very clear. For the city as a whole the benefit of Finch/Sheppard/SRT to Sheppard/Eglinton compared to just Eglinton/SRT is stunning. 23 million new riders annually vs 12 million. 46 million riders on the LRT lines compared to only 14 million on the Crosstown.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
She really does need someone better to make these PPTs for her - it's awful!
AoD
AoD
Johnny Au
Superstar
I agree that she should hire a person who knows how to make good PowerPoint presentations. However, the aesthetics of her PowerPoint presentation are among the least important things about her plans. Fortunately, the ideas presented on the presentation is much more important and these ideas are more than enough to persuade the mayor that Transit City is the way to go for the future of Toronto.
BurlOak
Senior Member
I agree that Don Mills is a major hub and source of transfers towards Yonge.
So why did Transit City have increased service from Laird/Brentcliffe eastward towards Yonge? The stretch from Brentcliffe to Don Mills would be so easy to place on a South Side alignment, but neither Miller nor Stintz considered this.
Last edited: