superelevation
Active Member
New York is not a good example for modern transit planning.
Even though the speeds will quite likely not be all that. different in many places.
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New York is not a good example for modern transit planning.
Even though the speeds will quite likely not be all that. different in many places.
T3G
Senior Member
What exactly is the argument that you are making here? Toronto and Kitchener-Waterloo will never be a pairing that is equal to Rome and Milano, so the sooner we accept that, the sooner we can have discourse within the parameters of what is rather than what we'd like to see.
Secondly... so? What does the lack of fare integration with various European cities have to do with us? We can't do something because Europe also doesn't do it?
Counter argument: implementing Presto would make the transit system more accessible and user friendly to visitors from areas where Presto is already widely implemented, such as tourists, students, or even people who work in another place beside their hometown.
If a region doesn't want to help integrate their transit system with the rest of the province, why exactly should the province open their pocket books for them?
There are three separate arguments that I see here. The first one is that the nature of transit means that it is unfeasible for them to run their operations from operating revenues alone, and the results with or without a Presto surcharge are not enough to run any transit system of an appreciable scale. This argument is also a compelling one against having other expensive features in a transit system where something analog would be cheaper, such as digital destination signs or air conditioning. We need sufficient political funding for this to not be a concern.
Moreover, as much as this may be a problem, it is not something that should be of any concern to the clients of the service. It is an internal issue and needs to be sorted out accordingly. All the client sees is that their extremely convenient fare card, which they can use for travel in much of southern Ontario, is no good for the system in question, and their perception of the system rightfully goes down in estimation.
Finally, Presto was not the only solution I mentioned. Having payments via debit or credit cards is another state of the art solution we in the region have failed to implement, and companies like VISA collect less charges on a transaction than Metrolinx does with Presto. Do you think that if we adopted some European fare card system, the provider wouldn't collect their own fees? It is the cost of running the organization. How many big box stores do you see around that only accept cash? If the profit driven private sector can figure this out, why can't public transit organizations?
The TTC in the post Byford era is one of the worst run organizations on the continent, so I'm not sure how much weight I should ascribe to this information. Furthermore, in typically Torontonian style, I expect that whatever solution they will end up adopting to replace Presto will be some in-house designed, barely functional boondoggle that will run way over budget instead of something useful like credit/debit based fare payments.
Such is the cost of running a modern, integrated, user friendly transit system. Everything costs something, even your much lauded European fare cards cost something to develop and implement. The simplest and cheapest solution is to have only cash fares, but that would be insane.
ARG1
Senior Member
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
Probably to get a better deal with Presto I don't really see the province just letting the TTC switch to another system when they have so much invested in it especially since it's planned that the Ontario line will use Presto and I don't think the TTC wants to have people pay different fares within their own stations.
WillTo
Senior Member
Did I miss a memo? I thought they were gonna run with 2 car trains, not 3
nfitz
Superstar
They might as well test in the 3-car configuration though - to make sure it functions that way too.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I suspect that's exactly it. I'd be very surprised if they are running 3-car trains in operation, particularly since the TTC is pushing for higher frequencies on the line from opening day.
That said, the 3-car trains certainly make it look more like an actual metro line and not just a streetcar.
JasonParis
Moderator
I'm hoping for some 3-car trains personally. It certainly quells the "fancy streetcar" talk.
max
Active Member
The Crosslinx contract probably has language specifying the system must function with 3 car trains. It's would then behove Crosslinx to prove that out in some way so they aren't caught with their pants down when 3 car service is required.Did I miss a memo? I thought they were gonna run with 2 car trains, not 3
johntauren
Active Member
A little bit of weirdness going on the TTC twitter service account today, mentioning Line 5, probably testing out alerts.
Which have since vanished.
Which have since vanished.
WillTo
Senior Member
Coolibop
Active Member
I thought they have signal priority if they are running late?
Amare
Senior Member
Lol I think they're trying to project and foreshadow that they will be having operational issues with the line the minute that it opens. Let's remember, we're talking about an organization that cannot properly manage virtually anything (as evidenced by the tweet itself).
robmausser
Senior Member
been mostly disabled permanently by Toronto Road Authority.
felix123
Active Member
Is this a new development? I had heard that line 5 would have catch-up TSP.