[dowlingm]

Is there a law preventing us from bringing cheap labour from Asia?

I doubt labour is the issue here. We're talking about a difference between:

1 building a mostly surface laid non-electrified track over plain land without archeological investigations, environmental assessment or consultation with locals,
and
2 a tunnel and electrified track which passes under two other tunnels with electrified track through an area with mapped and unmapped underground utilities in addition to stations and accessible infrastructure, with neighbours who don't want 24x7 construction.

 

[hw621]

I doubt labour is the issue here. We're talking about a difference between:

1 building a mostly surface laid non-electrified track over plain land without archeological investigations, environmental assessment or consultation with locals,
and
2 a tunnel and electrified track which passes under two other tunnels with electrified track through an area with mapped and unmapped underground utilities in addition to stations and accessible infrastructure, with neighbours who don't want 24x7 construction.

others around the world also build 2 at a much faster pace...

 

[Admiral Beez]

Is there a law preventing us from bringing cheap labour from Asia?

At this stage I don't care about the labour cost, just get it done. Can't we get anything done on time? This damn thing was announced in 2007 by Miller and Adam "casting couch" Giambrone. I expect it will be 2024 before the final elements are fully complete and operational, or seventeen years from announcement to completion for a system that is for much of its length a street level LRT.

At this rate, at 48 years old, I'll be lucky to still be alive by the time the DRL or Ontario Line is completed.

 

[crs1026]

others around the world also build 2 at a much faster pace...

I went looking for some facts to debate this statement, and I figured I'd start with Crossrail in London. The article that Google put at top of list was this one from CNN.

The UK's National Audit Office has blamed an "unrealistic" schedule for the delays. "The compressed schedule, the contractual model, the loss of downward pressure on costs and the absence of a realistic plan were set against an atmosphere where 'can do' became unrealistic," it wrote in May 2019.

Does that sound familiar? Ontario Line, anyone?

- Paul

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

thats what you get with unionised labour on govt jobs.

You do know that it is private companies doing the construction. They were given the specs or contract, and that is what they do. Except if they find something that was different or not in the specs, like undocumented pipes or utilities.

 

[cplchanb]

You do know that it is private companies doing the construction. They were given the specs or contract, and that is what they do. Except if they find something that was different or not in the specs, like undocumented pipes or utilities.

Its the govt jobs part that I am concerned about. whether its public or private, theyve been known to milk every dollar for minimal work as much as they can

 

[tnarduzzi]

We made a quick video on the construction progress at Keelesdale and Mount Dennis stations:

Am I wrong here or is one of the reasons why crosstown is wearing everyone down is sloppy project management... it didn't really click for me until I watched this video. The decrepit state of the entire stretch of Eglinton quite frankly has me pissed off.

If a sand barrel is broken... THEN REPLACE IT! If the pylons are crushed and cracked, throw them out and replace them. If signage is knocked over then pick it back up. If there are massive and I mean MASSIVE potholes in the road then patch them.

For a project that has spanned the better part of a decade this is where Crosslinx and Metrolinx have both failed miserably. I remember looking at the Crossrail project in London and being amazed at how tidy the sites were. If you compare the projects they are not identical but both are similar in that they are crossing a major high density urban area and both have multiple construction sites operating concurrently. -- All of the sites in London were enclosed behind visually appealing barricades, the streetscape as a whole outside of these barricades was cared for and untouched by construction activity. When you compare London's approach to Toronto the difference is night and day. London clearly is taking every effort to minimize annoyance and disruption to city residents, whereby apparently Crosslinx and Metrolinx could give a flying f**K.

Crosslinx and Metrolinx need to take notes from TfL's playbook. Also, we the citizens need to be more demanding and stop tolerating this ignorance from our government.

EDIT: For comparisons sake here is a picture of your average TfL Crossrail construction site... the difference in cleanliness and appearance is staggering.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Am I wrong here or is one of the reasons why crosstown is wearing everyone down is sloppy project management... it didn't really click for me until I watched this video. The decrepit state of the entire stretch of Eglinton quite frankly has me pissed off.

View attachment 232394

If a sand barrel is broken... THEN REPLACE IT! If the pylons are crushed and cracked, throw them out and replace them. If signage is knocked over then pick it back up. If there are massive and I mean MASSIVE potholes in the road then patch them.

For a project that has spanned the better part of a decade this is where Crosslinx and Metrolinx have both failed miserably. I remember looking at the Crossrail project in London and being amazed at how tidy the sites were. If you compare the projects they are not identical but both are similar in that they are crossing a major high density urban area and both have multiple construction sites operating concurrently. -- All of the sites in London were enclosed behind visually appealing barricades, the streetscape as a whole outside of these barricades was cared for and untouched by construction activity. When you compare London's approach to Toronto the difference is night and day. London clearly is taking every effort to minimize annoyance and disruption to city residents, whereby apparently Crosslinx and Metrolinx could give a flying f**K.

Crosslinx and Metrolinx need to take notes from TfL's playbook. Also, we the citizens need to be more demanding and stop tolerating this ignorance from our government.

EDIT: For comparisons sake here is a picture of your average TfL Crossrail construction site... the difference in cleanliness and appearance is staggering.
View attachment 232398

Crossrail doesn't have to deal with the number of cars Eglinton avenue sees. Potholes really aren't an issue for them, and Jersey barriers aren't required.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Crossrail doesn't have to deal with the number of cars Eglinton avenue sees. Potholes really aren't an issue for them, and Jersey barriers aren't required.

London, England had so far (2019-2020) just 1 day of snow (1.0 cm).

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Am I wrong here or is one of the reasons why crosstown is wearing everyone down is sloppy project management... it didn't really click for me until I watched this video. The decrepit state of the entire stretch of Eglinton quite frankly has me pissed off.

View attachment 232394

If a sand barrel is broken... THEN REPLACE IT! If the pylons are crushed and cracked, throw them out and replace them. If signage is knocked over then pick it back up. If there are massive and I mean MASSIVE potholes in the road then patch them.

For a project that has spanned the better part of a decade this is where Crosslinx and Metrolinx have both failed miserably. I remember looking at the Crossrail project in London and being amazed at how tidy the sites were. If you compare the projects they are not identical but both are similar in that they are crossing a major high density urban area and both have multiple construction sites operating concurrently. -- All of the sites in London were enclosed behind visually appealing barricades, the streetscape as a whole outside of these barricades was cared for and untouched by construction activity. When you compare London's approach to Toronto the difference is night and day. London clearly is taking every effort to minimize annoyance and disruption to city residents, whereby apparently Crosslinx and Metrolinx could give a flying f**K.

Crosslinx and Metrolinx need to take notes from TfL's playbook. Also, we the citizens need to be more demanding and stop tolerating this ignorance from our government.

EDIT: For comparisons sake here is a picture of your average TfL Crossrail construction site... the difference in cleanliness and appearance is staggering.
View attachment 232398

Just look at the state of the road markings. Markings are faded and in the wrong spot. Years out-of-date road markings aren’t being removed. Old and out-of-date road signs litter the streets and sidewalks.

It’s clear that Crosslinx does not give a damn about minimizing disruption

I know I’ve seen at least one accident on Eglinton that was caused by conflicting road markings

 

[tnarduzzi]

Just look at the state of the road markings. Markings are faded and in the wrong spot. Years out-of-date road markings aren’t being removed. Old and out-of-date road signs litter the streets and sidewalks.

It’s clear that Crosslinx does not give a damn about minimizing disruption

I know I’ve seen at least one accident on Eglinton that was caused by conflicting road markings

Yes the roads are beyond awful. At first I was willing to write it off as temporary construction related damage. But this project has now just dragged on forever, it’s gotten to the point where it has now been literally years of driving over the same potholes.

Case and point of the ineptitude:
I commute by vehicle on Eglinton daily passing both Leslie and Brentcliff. Going westbound there is a massive pothole about 6” deep on the hill going up toward Brentcliff. It is a sunken catch basin which has been there for months. It’s now deep enough to seriously damage cars going any faster then a slow creep. I’ve called this in to 311. 311 dispatched CoT Transportation Services staff. Transportation was forced to notify Metrolinx and close their work order because the city has temporarily ceded responsibility of Eglinton. Anybody want to take over/under bets on if Metrolonx fixes the catch basin before the entire Crosstown project is actually opened? I say over, the project opens first.

It looks like all problems with Eglinton ultimately get punted to the consortium. The contractor is clearly not going to go above and beyond at this point. I predict the City’s post Crosstown Eglinton beautification project ends up absorbing a bunch of repair overages for damages actually done by the Crosstown contractor.

Sorry to vent and derail this thread slightly but at this point I’m over it. This has been a disaster and despite having a background in planning and a great appreciation for transit I never ever want Metrolinx anywhere even remotely close to my home ever again!

 

[tnarduzzi]

Crossrail doesn't have to deal with the number of cars Eglinton avenue sees. Potholes really aren't an issue for them, and Jersey barriers aren't required.

Yes I agree the projects have different requirements but even the Crosstown Jersey barriers are falling apart. I mean literally in numerous places along Eglinton it’s just strings of smashed up concrete chunks held together by the rebar.

The contractor has clearly stopped caring/never cared, is strapped for cash/squeezing every penny of possible profit, or both.

And the icing on the cake. Honestly if this were an 18 month project I wouldn’t even care. It’s the fact that it is in this state now for years is what bothers me.

Edit. I’m going to add here instead of hijacking with yet another post that another thing that bothers me is the unnecessary lane closures. In places it looks to me like lanes have been closed off for months for materials storage, inactive staging, or even worse... to accommodate parking for the work crews. This is just a slap in the face on top of everything else.

 

[Coolstar]

Yes the roads are beyond awful. At first I was willing to write it off as temporary construction related damage. But this project has now just dragged on forever, it’s gotten to the point where it has now been literally years of driving over the same potholes.

Case and point of the ineptitude:
I commute by vehicle on Eglinton daily passing both Leslie and Brentcliff. Going westbound there is a massive pothole about 6” deep on the hill going up toward Brentcliff. It is a sunken catch basin which has been there for months. It’s now deep enough to seriously damage cars going any faster then a slow creep. I’ve called this in to 311. 311 dispatched CoT Transportation Services staff. Transportation was forced to notify Metrolinx and close their work order because the city has temporarily ceded responsibility of Eglinton. Anybody want to take over/under bets on if Metrolonx fixes the catch basin before the entire Crosstown project is actually opened? I say over, the project opens first.

It looks like all problems with Eglinton ultimately get punted to the consortium. The contractor is clearly not going to go above and beyond at this point. I predict the City’s post Crosstown Eglinton beautification project ends up absorbing a bunch of repair overages for damages actually done by the Crosstown contractor.

Sorry to vent and derail this thread slightly but at this point I’m over it. This has been a disaster and despite having a background in planning and a great appreciation for transit I never ever want Metrolinx anywhere even remotely close to my home ever again!

In short basically, don't trust Metrolinx with any transit project.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Am I wrong here or is one of the reasons why crosstown is wearing everyone down is sloppy project management... it didn't really click for me until I watched this video. The decrepit state of the entire stretch of Eglinton quite frankly has me pissed off.

View attachment 232394

If a sand barrel is broken... THEN REPLACE IT! If the pylons are crushed and cracked, throw them out and replace them. If signage is knocked over then pick it back up. If there are massive and I mean MASSIVE potholes in the road then patch them.

For a project that has spanned the better part of a decade this is where Crosslinx and Metrolinx have both failed miserably. I remember looking at the Crossrail project in London and being amazed at how tidy the sites were. If you compare the projects they are not identical but both are similar in that they are crossing a major high density urban area and both have multiple construction sites operating concurrently. -- All of the sites in London were enclosed behind visually appealing barricades, the streetscape as a whole outside of these barricades was cared for and untouched by construction activity. When you compare London's approach to Toronto the difference is night and day. London clearly is taking every effort to minimize annoyance and disruption to city residents, whereby apparently Crosslinx and Metrolinx could give a flying f**K.

Crosslinx and Metrolinx need to take notes from TfL's playbook. Also, we the citizens need to be more demanding and stop tolerating this ignorance from our government.

EDIT: For comparisons sake here is a picture of your average TfL Crossrail construction site... the difference in cleanliness and appearance is staggering.
View attachment 232398

Just look at the state of the road markings. Markings are faded and in the wrong spot. Years out-of-date road markings aren’t being removed. Old and out-of-date road signs litter the streets and sidewalks.

It’s clear that Crosslinx does not give a damn about minimizing disruption

I know I’ve seen at least one accident on Eglinton that was caused by conflicting road markings

Yes the roads are beyond awful. At first I was willing to write it off as temporary construction related damage. But this project has now just dragged on forever, it’s gotten to the point where it has now been literally years of driving over the same potholes.

Case and point of the ineptitude:
I commute by vehicle on Eglinton daily passing both Leslie and Brentcliff. Going westbound there is a massive pothole about 6” deep on the hill going up toward Brentcliff. It is a sunken catch basin which has been there for months. It’s now deep enough to seriously damage cars going any faster then a slow creep. I’ve called this in to 311. 311 dispatched CoT Transportation Services staff. Transportation was forced to notify Metrolinx and close their work order because the city has temporarily ceded responsibility of Eglinton. Anybody want to take over/under bets on if Metrolonx fixes the catch basin before the entire Crosstown project is actually opened? I say over, the project opens first.

It looks like all problems with Eglinton ultimately get punted to the consortium. The contractor is clearly not going to go above and beyond at this point. I predict the City’s post Crosstown Eglinton beautification project ends up absorbing a bunch of repair overages for damages actually done by the Crosstown contractor.

Sorry to vent and derail this thread slightly but at this point I’m over it. This has been a disaster and despite having a background in planning and a great appreciation for transit I never ever want Metrolinx anywhere even remotely close to my home ever again!

It's gotten to the point where I've now remembered where all the potholes are and strategically avoid them.

I just hope this isn't indicative of Crosslinx's overall level of care with this project. Also, future P3s really do need to carefully outline construction mitigation methods in the contracts.

 

[tnarduzzi]

It's gotten to the point where I've now remembered where all the potholes are and strategically avoid them.

I just hope this isn't indicative of Crosslinx's overall level of care with this project. Also, future P3s really do need to carefully outline construction mitigation methods in the contracts.

So I got to wondering why the Crossrail contractors are so much more well organized than Crosslinx.

It turns out they are inspected periodically for adherence to a set of best practices by a third party non-profit organization called the Considerate Construction Scheme. The contractor, sites, and suppliers are then scored according to standardized checklists and ranked based on their compliance.

Here is an example checklist, the criteria are perfect IMO.

https://www.ccscheme.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/2020-Site-Checklist-2.pdf

We totally need this here in Canada for P3s to survive!