[thettctransitfanatic]

For a self-described "TTC Transit Fanatic" your posts frequently display an amazing lack of knowledge of the TTC system, earlier Reports and simple geography. (Also interesting that, despite your fandom, you have yet to visit Russell! "I am visiting Russell today, I haven't been to Russell before personally, ") As the 512 St Clair streetcars can only get to St Clair by using Bathurst, I think you might assume that the track is OK (and much of it was rebuilt fairly recently). Whether Hillcrest is a suitable streetcar yard any more is quite another question and there are several TTC Reports on how best to use the whole complex. After your excursion today you might want to spend some time on research - your posts may then be based on facts and history and worth paying attention to.

I know a lot about the TTC system, I do not however go to certain areas as often as others ( like the area near Russell ), and I do a lot of research too. The problem is, if there is a delay that holds up 511, there's gonna be NO streetcars. If there's is no streetcars, how do you expect people to get places? I have knowledgeable on the TTC system, you honestly need to stop complaining because this is a public forum!

 

[DSCToronto]

From TTC July 2023:

TTC Russell Carhouse Upgrades

Timeline: Ongoing – February, 2025
.
What we are doing and why:

To improve streetcar service, the expansion of TTC’s streetcar fleet requires additional maintenance & storage space. TTC is upgrading storage capacity at streetcar yards across the City. As part of this program, TTC will be modifying the carhouse and storage area at Russell Yard.

What is happening:

The Russell Yard upgrade project includes:
 Replacing all yard tracks with concrete-embedded track rail and switches
 Providing track lubrication to all storage tracks to reduce streetcar noise (wheel squeal).
 Replacing all underground utility services and providing a storm water retention management system.
 Upgrading the overhead electrical system for streetcar pantograph operations.

Schedule:

To maintain service for TTC customers, construction is completed in stages.

Stage 1:  Concrete/track work removal and excavation in the eastern part of the yard, daily until November 2023*. A concrete breaker, backhoe, and dump truck will typically run weekdays between 7 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Vibration and noise, typically associated with construction is expected during road compaction and caisson installation.  Augering will be carried out at locations around the perimeter of the yard to allow for future pole installation. Additional lighting will be installed

 Starting as early as July 21, 2023 for a period of approximately 8 weeks, overnight streetcar rail replacement work is scheduled to re-commence. Work will begin in the eastern portion of the yard and move towards the west and southern portion of the yard.

Crews must work around the clock on track installation specifically, to ensure effective concrete curing and long-term quality of the rails. Crews are pre-assembling as much rail as possible at an offsite location to expedite the process and reduce the amount of work for assembly in the yard. The assembly and installation of the new track includes rail cutting, rail welding, and fastening the rails in place, followed by concrete work. Construction vehicles are equipped with a backup alarm, and staff will work to limit the reversing of vehicles during night work.

Stage 2/3:  The western portion of the Russell Carhouse Yard will undergo the same scope of work from November 2023* to February 2025*

Next steps:

Carhouse extension and modifications (start date: as early as 2025 – 2028, TBD*):

 Construct the west extension of the carhouse to allow for an additional maintenance bay for new streetcars.
 Upgrade the existing carhouse building to accommodate new streetcars.
 Reconfigure maintenance tracks and pits in the carhouse for maintenance.

 

[hawc]

 

[drum118]

Did not realized there was a thread for the yard as I would have posted photos from my various trips I been there with some been posted in the TTC catch all thread.

Looking at the shot, they are going to do some saw cutting to the north to get the footing in place for the new 2 bay extension in the coming years.

 

[hawc]

Curious, what do they need the Russell Carthouse for that they cant' do over at the huge new Leslie Barns just a few blocks away? Surprised they're reinvesting in this location and not just selling off the land for condos.

 

[nfitz]

Curious, what do they need the Russell Carthouse for that they cant' do over at the huge new Leslie Barns just a few blocks away? Surprised they're reinvesting in this location and not just selling off the land for condos.

The full 260+ cars can't fit in in Russell/Leslie/Roncesvalles combined - so not only are they rehabbing this (after doing Roncesvalles), they are also building storage/maintenance at Hillcrest (Bathurst and Davenport).

 

[drum118]

Curious, what do they need the Russell Carthouse for that they cant' do over at the huge new Leslie Barns just a few blocks away? Surprised they're reinvesting in this location and not just selling off the land for condos.

They need to add an carhouse to service the overhead of the LRV like they did at Roncesvalles some years ago.

By the end of the year, TTC will have another 30 cars on their property that will require more service that cannot be done at Leslie due to lack of space. Next year they have another 30 cars that will stench service bay needs more as well lack of storage space.

Even when TTC adds the new Hillcrest yard by 2030, TTC is still short space and even more if they need more cars to meet future needs.

 

[drum118]

Jan 18
Lot more up on my site for 2024 and Jan 18

 

[crs1026]

^ Begs a question - how old were the rails that are being replaced in the yard?

- Paul

 

[hawc]

Here's a bit of a dumb observation, but it seems that streetcars require a huge amount of supporting infrastructure from the tracks all the way to the repair facilities. I know we all have a love affair with streetcars, but would buses make more economic sense? I'm sure this has been studied and that's why we have streetcars, and I'd rather get on a streetcar than a bus, but the infrastructure costs with streetcars seems enormous.

 

[crs1026]

Here's a bit of a dumb observation, but it seems that streetcars require a huge amount of supporting infrastructure from the tracks all the way to the repair facilities. I know we all have a love affair with streetcars, but would buses make more economic sense? I'm sure this has been studied and that's why we have streetcars, and I'd rather get on a streetcar than a bus, but the infrastructure costs with streetcars seems enormous.

Well, consider the cost of building bus garages. Not cheap either, and greater issues of noise, fumes, and environmental impacts (eg spills, containment systems).

The rails at Russell are a good example. I bet they have lasted a lot longer than a paved parking surface for buses would have - by a factor of decades. We may need a new bay for the new overhead servicing, but it too will last the duration of the current fleet - I imagine that the hvac needed to exhaust bus fumes at a bus garage gets renewed more frequently. As do the hydraulic bus lifts and such. And the re-tooling needed for each new bus model.

I will admit that I am loving streetcars less every day. The bustitutions seem to provide more efficient and reliable transportation. Cost may be greater, but I am seriously questioning whether this city can effectively provide tracked transportation on congested streets that have so much construction (and hence service rerouting or bus replacement).

We need an A-G report looking at the value for money of the 60-car extension order for the fleet. With all the construction related bustitution, I will bet a good dinner that utilisation is so low that we never needed them at all.

And this from a passionate pro-streetcar guy.

- Paul

 

[rdaner]

^I highly doubt that bus replacement has delivered better results on any level.

 

[kev1n1m]

Here's a bit of a dumb observation, but it seems that streetcars require a huge amount of supporting infrastructure from the tracks all the way to the repair facilities. I know we all have a love affair with streetcars, but would buses make more economic sense? I'm sure this has been studied and that's why we have streetcars, and I'd rather get on a streetcar than a bus, but the infrastructure costs with streetcars seems enormous.

You should google it and find out, because shockingly you're not the first person to ask this question. At least you wonder if it's been studied, and didn't do the conservative approach of claiming to know already and that busses are better.

 

[hawc]

Well I know that when I'm a rider I'd prefer to be on a streetcar, but when I'm a driver or cyclist it's a lot easier to pass a bus than a streetcar. We've built this incredible streetcar architecture (Spadina, St. Clair West) but it really hasn't lived up to expectations. And then it feels like we need to shut down major intersections for a month ever few years to do track replacements. I dunno....

 

[crs1026]

Well I know that when I'm a rider I'd prefer to be on a streetcar, but when I'm a driver or cyclist it's a lot easier to pass a bus than a streetcar. We've built this incredible streetcar architecture (Spadina, St. Clair West) but it really hasn't lived up to expectations. And then it feels like we need to shut down major intersections for a month ever few years to do track replacements. I dunno....

I regularly drive St Clair eastbound from Keele, and my favourite game is “pace the streetcar”. Almost always it’s a case of wondering if the streetcar will catch up, as opposed to me trying to keep up with it.

On non-separated streets, not only is the bus easier to pass, but it’s easier for the bus to weave thru congestion. I much prefer to ride streetcars, but when it’s cold or wet, and I’m tired, the 501 bus that does arrive is a lot better to ride than the streetcar that doesn’t.

I’m glad we have streetcars in Toronto, but they are no magic solution.

- Paul