[nfitz]

I'm sure this as been addressed, but what's the chance of the province taking over the Gardiner and changing the plans the city already voted on. For example, instead of the hybrid proposal that they decided on, the province instead rebuilds the eastern section as is, with the ramp at Logan again?

Or rebuild the ramp they knocked down previously at Leslie - restoring the non-stop from Coxwell to Mississauga?

I'd say near zero change. Once the new ramp and widened Lakeshore are finished, it won't be that much different time-wise. It might even be a bit faster for some trips, with less congestion compared to the pre-2020 getting off at Jarvis to head to the Don Roadway.

 

[RapidTransit]

Or rebuild the ramp they knocked down previously at Leslie - restoring the non-stop from Coxwell to Mississauga?

I'd say near zero change. Once the new ramp and widened Lakeshore are finished, it won't be that much different time-wise. It might even be a bit faster for some trips, with less congestion compared to the pre-2020 getting off at Jarvis to head to the Don Roadway.

The ramp at Leslie towards coxwell could still happen. They still have the columns going west and the space. Obviously Leslie barns now occupies the off ramps to Leslie.
I wonder if they could use the former rail corridor that runs south between the Canadian Tire and Canada post as an off ramp, if the Gardiner got extended east again.
You can still have marathons take place on Lake shore while traffic is diverted onto the Gardiner.

The old argument of the Gardiner being an eye soar will still presist. But the beaches will still complain if traffic and long commute times. They'll have to pick their poison.

 

[Aplus23]

as a east ender I take Danforth or usually Kingston to the Lakeshore into downtown.

 

[nfitz]

The ramp at Leslie towards coxwell could still happen.

Never happening. Westbound it's faster now, than when those infernal ramps were there. Not much difference eastbound when they moved them to Carlaw as there were two up-ramps instead of one.

They still have the columns going west and the space.

4 or 5 columns - designed for only a single lane width, would have no $ impact on such a project. Heck, they'd probably have to spend an extra 0.001% of the budget to knock them down!

Obviously Leslie barns now occupies the off ramps to Leslie.

Though there's certainly space along there to put a ramp like there was at Carlaw. Heck, I think it's wider at Leslie than from Donlands to Carlaw! But it will never happen. Not even with Doug.

hey'll have to pick their poison.

And yet travel times improved when they replaced the Leslie ramps with Carlaw. Did you find it easy to get off on Leslie? Did you not back up the ramp? Did you ever get stuck at Carlaw backed up the ramp - even with the traffic lights?

The Leslie off-ramp was absurd. I never once found myself stopped on the Carlaw ramp.

 

[max]

Obvious perhaps - but 100% false. The ramp was where Canadian Tire is now. That's why that triangle of land was there.

The off-ramp was to the south-east of Leslie & Lakeshore where Leslie Barns is today.

EDIT: This was the 1977 aerial photo from: Aerial Photographs 1977 – City of Toronto

 

[nfitz]

The off-ramp was to the south-east of Leslie & Lakeshore where Leslie Barns is today.
View attachment 683611

Ah - my memory failed me. My apologies, I'll edit my snarky post. I got the locations backwards. You can see the one lane ramp to Lakeshore though - which was a big problem. And that one lane, massive curve to get north on Leslie was just crazy. Why not just come down to a traffic light? The York exit was similarly bizarre.

I can't see clearly, and don't remember. Was the westbound ramp from Leslie one-lane as well?

 

[giantorangehead]

This is still the plan right? In order to rebuild the ramps over Lakeshore Blvd east the realignment would have to be scrapped, which would replace the development along the Keating Channel with a rebuilt Gardiner. Not to mention the McCleary District and East Harbour developments along Lakeshore East now having elevated highway on/off ramps cutting through the middle of them. I'd rather not will that future into existence.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I don't think MTO would return to the previous iteration of the Gardiner.

What may happen though is MTO may proceed with Hybrid Option 2 - which has a better, higher speed and capacity turning radius for the DVP>Gardiner extension. From what I recall the council-endorsed plan included some very tight ramps in the endorsed Hybrid 3 option. MTO may instead opt for Hybrid 1 or 2. (I hope not 1, 2 isn't a big deal, IMO):

I could see MTO having issues with both the grade and radius of that ramp, and opting for Option 2 or a hybrid thereof to try to improve that condition.

 

[max]

I can't see clearly, and don't remember. Was the westbound ramp from Leslie one-lane as well?

It's hard to tell for sure on the aerials, and I don't really have time to go through all the years to find the cleanest one. 1992 looks a little better though. To me the off-ramp looks wider and you can see the lane markings on it while you can't see any on the on-ramp so probably.

Source: https://www.toronto.ca/ext/archives/s0012/fl1992/s0012_fl1992_it0052g.jpg

 

[dowlingm]

Is it too late for Hybrid 2 now that Metrolinx are building the "Wilson" yard extension?

 

[RapidTransit]

The off-ramp was to the south-east of Leslie & Lakeshore where Leslie Barns is today.
View attachment 683611

Exactly how I remember it. The beer store owned the now Canadian tire.

With the exception of the off ramp to Leslie, the space is still there.

I don't recall the traffic at the old ramps at Leslie being as congested compared to now with the intersection at Carlaw.

 

[RapidTransit]

The off-ramp was to the south-east of Leslie & Lakeshore where Leslie Barns is today.
View attachment 683611

What year was this taken. Before the Loblaws , so pre 80s for sure. I assume late 1960s?

The Loblaw's use to be up the street at Leslie and Queen.

 

[nfitz]

It's hard to tell for sure on the aerials, and I don't really have time to go through all the years to find the cleanest one. 1992 looks a little better though. To me the off-ramp looks wider and you can see the lane markings on it while you can't see any on the on-ramp so probably.

The only year in the City's mapping tool between 1965 (under construction) and 2005 (removed around 2001) is 1978.

But looking at that now, it's clearly 1 lane. Which must have been a mess in AM rush-hour.

 

[RapidTransit]

I don't think MTO would return to the previous iteration of the Gardiner.

What may happen though is MTO may proceed with Hybrid Option 2 - which has a better, higher speed and capacity turning radius for the DVP>Gardiner extension. From what I recall the council-endorsed plan included some very tight ramps in the endorsed Hybrid 3 option. MTO may instead opt for Hybrid 1 or 2. (I hope not 1, 2 isn't a big deal, IMO):

I could see MTO having issues with both the grade and radius of that ramp, and opting for Option 2 or a hybrid thereof to try to improve that condition.

If I remember correctly, option 1 was the cheapest, but closer to the lake and a wider turning radius. Whereas option 3 had the tighter ramps but was more of an expensive option.

So it already looks as though MTO will not consider what the city had voted on previously and will do their own assessment.

Also its been 10 years since council voted on the hybrid proposal, with lots of changes since then anyways. So it makes sense for MTO to reconsider the ramps to meet their own requirements.