All of these arguments can be used just as easily against all the subway extensions to suburbia people keep promoting on here. As well as the GO bus, and every single cross border local transit route. Do I take it you're against them, too?
You cannot seriously be arguing that public transit is the same as individual private transit are you?
It doesn't make any sense. If city borders are just arbitrarily drawn lines on a map and we should ignore them when it comes to transit, why is it different when it comes to roads? The GTA is one big economic area, telling people who live outside Toronto, essentially, to get fucked, is not exactly an impressive strategy.
When streets (and until recently) certain highways were bought and paid for by Toronto taxes, it sure as hell makes a difference who’s paying for it; and why continuing to eat up a massive chunk of the city’s coffers for the benefit of individual transit for people outside of city borders is unsustainable.
The Gardiner without (it would appear, continual) serious maintenance is a hazard that will eventually kill people.
The money to built the necessary transit has to come from somewhere. Because the Gardiner is viewed as a “toronto highway”, guess who the rest of the GTA will assume should shoulder the bill for both increasing the necessary transit as well as repairing a crumbling elevated highway?
Toronto gets blamed by the rest of the GTA for everything. Don’t kid yourself that Burlington; Milton and Whitby won’t blame any necessary tax increase required on Toronto—with zero sense of irony.
BTW, when it comes to your, "So because someone chose to live an hour away from where they work, we should be obligated to continually throw as much money as we can to making that commute as easy as possible for them?", are you for real with this? What exactly do you think every single transit project we've ever built has been?
Please stop continuing to try and equate public transit with private.
Forget deep suburbia, throwing as much money as possible to make the commute from an hour away easy is the guiding philosophy behind both the farthest extensions of line 1 and line 2. Imagine how much money there would be for God knows what if we'd never bothered to give those dirty Scarberians or North Yorkers transit, either. They should've stayed right where they are, and left Toronto for the Torontonians. Those parasites.
Except that Scarborough and North York are a part of Toronto, and while not proper we’re part of Metro Toronto for over half a century. The TTC is as much theirs as downtown’s, and they were done dirty for a long time when it comes to transit.
Subways are a terrible long-distance commuter tactic, and building the extensions only serves to add to crowding problems those underfunded lines are already suffering. What should be served by more regular (longer range, fewer stop) GO service that would be undoubtedly faster has been shovelled into a subway system, because apparently we bow to the whims of the GTAs desires.
No, it wouldn't. I PROMISE you that tearing down the Gardener would not get Canadian Pacific to part with their Galt corridor for the wellbeing of Miltonians everywhere, the town would still be lost.
Ahhh yes, CP; the only organization in the province who can buy land and build rail, right? We can continue to be shackled to that bad decision, or y’know, build rail that doesn’t belong to them.
If we have money enough to buy up land and build a new highway few people are asking for, the ability is equally there to do so for needed rail.
And tearing down the Gardiner would subsequently also mean tearing down the 401 and 427? No, it doesn’t.
I’m fine with our pseudo ring road system.
Again, tell me how this isn’t about having an express route from your house to the downtown core?
Right, and if the people get on transit that takes twice as long to get there as the car does, that doesn't constitute extra time and energy spent in frustration?
And yet, for decades they’ve been asked to do
exactly that so that we can put the majority of our money towards cars.
Who said that I have a job in Toronto? I work very near my home, but I go into Toronto for other reasons: for art and culture, night life, specialized doctor's appointments, etc.
So you’re personally arguing for a highway straight into downtown based on nearly entirely for recreational purposes?
The entitlement of drivers will never cease to amaze me.
But if I did, what difference does it make? Last I checked, we don't live in a totalitarian dictatorship. I believe I am perfectly within my rights to travel outside of the town where I live for work.
You seem to want to equate entitlement with rights. You are not entitled a red carpet highway to downtown Toronto, over
far more efficient means that for are
far more for the public good.
This is chauvinistic nonsense, and, it seems very much to me, a variation on "I got mine" thinking. You have no right to tell other people whether they should or shouldn't take a job in Toronto.
I never said I did. I’ve continually said it’s a choice people make. Tearing down a highway isn’t barring someone from taking a job here. But we shouldn’t prioritize individual comfort and convenience over that of the general public, which is exactly what we’ve been doing for far, far too long.
I don't know if you have ever bothered to step foot outside of Toronto - based on your comments, I would be shocked to find out you have - but a podunk town like Milton is not exactly overflowing with economic opportunity.
Perhaps you missed just a few comments back where I mentioned I grew up rurally. I literally lived 14kms outside of Orangeville which was (then) less than 20,000 people, had zero public transit and little opportunity as business after business left. In my 20s I moved to Guelph and later Waterloo, but worked at the corner of Yonge & Front and drove there every day. So, yeah.
Been there, done all of what you think I haven’t. But sure, believe I’m some city-born-and-raised ignorant prat whose never set a foot north of Steeles.
And despite what you may think, Milton does have economic opportunity, just perhaps not in a field you want to work in. It’s been a trucking town since long before my aunt lived there and I visited every other weekend. It’s still a big trucking town; as proven by the massive effort behind the CN logistics hub.
And if I had gone and taken a job, say, in Oakville, or Mississauga, I'd still need some way of getting there. You as a Torontonian who doesn't give a fig about the welfare of the poor souls consigned to living in the suburbs would still be paying for the bus or train that would get me there and getting nothing out of your tax dollars.
Highways between cities are different than an urban highway that leads directly into the core of a city.
Or perhaps you’re also of the belief we should run a highway from the 401 or James Snow right to Martin and Main? Let’s funnel everyone who wants to get to anywhere in central Milton through that shall we?
I as a Torontonian feel I have a right to the fastest, most convenient method for me to get to exactly where I want, because I too contribute to the GTA. Please.
Oh yes, they are. Regular traffic jams would never extend the journey anywhere near 1 h 40+.
Funny, my commutes from Guelph to Toronto would easily end up two hours long a single direction, at least once a week. It was never in the Guelph side.
That would have to be an utter catastrophic traffic jam for transit to suddenly be competitive with the car, and I've never experienced that in my 24 years of living in the GTA.
Never is a long time.
Well, no. If you cared to read the post that I made carefully before engaging with it, you would say I say we should shore up our transit system first, and THEN remove the highway, instead of removing the highway and then hoping (because that's all it is) that the transit system will play catch up. Hope is a piss poor public policy.
Except we’re always going to be chasing a dragon of having enough money to do so while continuing to shovel money at cars.
As I said, ripping off the bandaid hurts. Waiting for “when we can afford to do both” has proven over the last 40 years to have been nothing but wishful thinking.
