[UtakataNoAnnex]

They can talk all they want. Zelensky already announced that Ukraine will never accept any so-called deal that asks them to give up any occupied territory, so the war will continue.

…at the end of the day, Ukraine will have to participate in the negotiations and agree to the proposals regardless of how sound and reasonable those are. If they don’t, then there is no deal. So it’s imperative they be involved.

 

[evandyk]

…at the end of the day, Ukraine will have to participate in the negotiations and agree to the proposals regardless of how sound and reasonable those are. If they don’t, then there is no deal. So it’s imperative they be involved.

Yeah, but without US weapons shipments, Ukraine eventually gets crushed. So the US can force them to the table, unless Europe fills the gap, which it probably can't do right now.

 

[Collingwoodbuildinglover]

Yeah, but without US weapons shipments, Ukraine eventually gets crushed. So the US can force them to the table, unless Europe fills the gap, which it probably can't do right now.

The more adversarial the US becomes towards Europe the more incentive Europe has to build up its industrial base and when you're fielding new weapons it helps when there's a war right on your doorstep to test them out

 

[evandyk]

But that takes time, which maybe Ukraine has, but maybe not.

 

[Towered]

But that takes time, which maybe Ukraine has, but maybe not.

Time is on the side of the defender. They have fought "mighty" Russia to a standstill and are comfortably holding the frontlines. Remember, in the last 2 years, Russia has not made any significant advancements despite throwing everything they have into the effort. Their casualty numbers remain atrocious. They are weaker and more vulnerable than they've ever been. They can't even take back the large chunk of Kursk that Ukraine occupied last summer. There's never been a more golden opportunity to finish this vile enemy off than now.

If I were president of the US, I wouldn't even consider talking to Russia. I wouldn't even respond to them if they reached out. The first thing I'd do is send Ukraine 200-300 F-16's, 1000 tanks, and another 6-8 Patriot air defense systems. And that would just be the start.

That's how you properly deal with an aggressive terrorist state that's been a thorn in the side of the West for 100 years. Time to end the game.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

Yeah, but without US weapons shipments, Ukraine eventually gets crushed. So the US can force them to the table, unless Europe fills the gap, which it probably can't do right now.

Yes, Ukraine will have to realize that the US no longer has their backs and Trump is an ally to Putin of sorts. But it is something they have to their own terms with and not at the behest of the US. Or no deal…

 

[Admiral Beez]

Yeah, but without US weapons shipments, Ukraine eventually gets crushed. So the US can force them to the table, unless Europe fills the gap, which it probably can't do right now.

Russia is rather beat down now, so I think Europe probably can provide sufficient support to carry on.

 

[lenaitch]

That's how you properly deal with an aggressive terrorist state that's been a thorn in the side of the West for 100 years. Time to end the game.

But that's not the game Trump wants to play. He wants to cut Europe loose which return it to Russia's playground. Maybe not immediately, but Russia has been a European threat long before Putin. All Trump wants out of Europe is raw materials and a market.

 

[evandyk]

Time is on the side of the defender. They have fought "mighty" Russia to a standstill and are comfortably holding the frontlines. Remember, in the last 2 years, Russia has not made any significant advancements despite throwing everything they have into the effort. Their casualty numbers remain atrocious. They are weaker and more vulnerable than they've ever been. They can't even take back the large chunk of Kursk that Ukraine occupied last summer. There's never been a more golden opportunity to finish this vile enemy off than now.

If I were president of the US, I wouldn't even consider talking to Russia. I wouldn't even respond to them if they reached out. The first thing I'd do is send Ukraine 200-300 F-16's, 1000 tanks, and another 6-8 Patriot air defense systems. And that would just be the start.

That's how you properly deal with an aggressive terrorist state that's been a thorn in the side of the West for 100 years. Time to end the game.

They fought Russia to a standstill with a whole lot of weapons and ammo provided by the US (along with many others, but the US is the lion's share). If the US was going to send them F-16s, tanks, air defence systems, and the ammo to keep them firing for months/years, Ukraine can maintain the standstill and even gain ground.

But that doesn't seem to be what Trump (or the people who voted for him) wants to happen any more.

 

[Mihairokov]

But that's not the game Trump wants to play. He wants to cut Europe loose which return it to Russia's playground. Maybe not immediately, but Russia has been a European threat long before Putin. All Trump wants out of Europe is raw materials and a market.

Which is ironic because this move probably pushes the EU closer to China if anything. Their trade has been increasing as it has been everywhere else and China can act as a counter-proxy to Russia's creeping influence. If the US won't support the EU they have to start looking for friends elsewhere.

The Ukraine issue should be a massive red flag for people in this country as the US and Russia begin divvying up things like the Arctic. If the US are willing to abandon Ukraine they're willing to abandon us, too.

 

[Towered]

They fought Russia to a standstill with a whole lot of weapons and ammo provided by the US (along with many others, but the US is the lion's share). If the US was going to send them F-16s, tanks, air defence systems, and the ammo to keep them firing for months/years, Ukraine can maintain the standstill and even gain ground.

But that doesn't seem to be what Trump (or the people who voted for him) wants to happen any more.

What about all the recent talk of Trump continuing to provide Ukraine with weapons in exchange for their large deposits of rare metals and other lucrative resources?

 

[Admiral Beez]

Russia has been a European threat long before Putin.

Minus its nuclear weapons, the days of Russia being a military, economic or industrial threat to Europe are coming to a close. Poland now has the third largest land army in Europe after Ukraine and Russia. The Scandinavians are now all in NATO and will be a hard nut to crack. The Baltic trio will be the next test. Meanwhile Russia is facing a demographic nightmare, made worse by half a million dead or wounded young men in Ukraine.

 

[evandyk]

Russia is basically as strong in terms of economy and population as Mexico (it's roughly 10% bigger on both counts, but is the closest comparator if you're trying to match up both stats). It has legacy military assets and technology, though. It is no match for Europe, if Europe chooses.

 

[Towered]

Russia is basically as strong in terms of economy and population as Mexico (it's roughly 10% bigger on both counts, but is the closest comparator if you're trying to match up both stats). It has legacy military assets and technology, though. It is no match for Europe, if Europe chooses.

I think it's hilarious that Texas alone has a bigger GDP than Russia

 

[gabe]