kEiThZ
Superstar
Where were these people for the last few months?
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- Thread starter Monarch Butterfly
- Start date
Many of them have been speaking out but they are getting better organized now. I don’t think anyone believed how total disregard for the constitution and the laws of the land could evolve so quickly. They have been somewhat deer in the headlights the last few weeks but are now channeling their anger.
kEiThZ
Superstar
I'll believe it, when these people actually work to convince the rural and suburban voters who voted for Trump. All I see right now are a bunch of urbanites protesting in cities. I don't think even a lot of swing voters are moved.
CBS News poll — Trump has positive approval amid "energetic" opening weeks; seen as doing what he promised
Trump's deportation plans are popular, but Americans say there's not enough focus on lowering prices.
www.cbsnews.com
They are a hard nut to crack. They actually believe Musk is auditing government departments. Anyone with an iota of sense knows that this is not how auditors work.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Whatever it is, it's their problem. And I don't think we should put any faith in the possibility of a course correction anytime soon.
Part of the problem here too is Democrats and even the broader left in the US. How many Gaza supporters stayed home because Harris was too sympathetic to Israel? How many of those annihilistic Bernie Bro types are happy to cheer on Trump, hoping they'll be the Phoenix to rise from the ashes? There's a whole lot of very comfortable people in the US who really think politics is a game, because it doesn't impact them immediately. They only show up after the fact.
Definitely. I just happen to hang with a group of people who have been actively protesting and trying to get their message across since 2016. Those who voted against Harris or stayed home because of the Gaza issue definitely bear some responsibility for where we are.
And I see that Oprah is shutting down her show and moving to Italy. She comes from a place of privilege where she can do that.
And I see that Oprah is shutting down her show and moving to Italy. She comes from a place of privilege where she can do that.
UtakataNoAnnex
Senior Member
I wouldn’t trust any polls coming from there currently than any poll conducted in Russia that favours Putin. Just saying…I'll believe it, when these people actually work to convince the rural and suburban voters who voted for Trump. All I see right now are a bunch of urbanites protesting in cities. I don't think even a lot of swing voters are moved.
CBS News poll — Trump has positive approval amid "energetic" opening weeks; seen as doing what he promised
Trump's deportation plans are popular, but Americans say there's not enough focus on lowering prices.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
And it continues...
Admiral Beez
Superstar
We're reliving Yalta Feb 1945, where the US and USSR (and an impotent UK) carved up Eastern Europe without consulting its inhabitants. Today, almost eighty years to the date, in 2025 we have the US and Russia (and an impotent EU) about to do the same to Ukraine (and likely Georgia and Moldova).
kEiThZ
Superstar
That was really pre-nuclear age. Not happening today. You will see utter panic if Poland and/or other European countries withdraw from the Non-proliferation treaty.
The Trump administration is full of morons who don't understand how military power and geopolitics works in the modern era. But Eastern Europe is not going to accept Yalta 2.0.
Will add though. That we are where we are because Europeans and Canadians have massively underspent on defence and basically dared the Americans to cut us all off. Anybody that called for higher defence spending even 3-4 years ago was seen as some warmonger. It's unfortunate that people haven't learned that actual warmongers, like Putin, can only ever be deterred with real weapons. If Europe and Canada actually re-arm, you will actually see Putin cowed and the Americans being more accommodating when they know they can be ignored.
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Admiral Beez
Superstar
I can't speak for Canada, but Europe is rearming rapidly. Poland will soon have the largest tank force in Europe, if not already. The UK is a miserable exception.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Unfortunately Polish tanks aren't enough. Europe needs enough forces across all the capabilities that Putin knows any small adventure in the Baltics or Finland will be crushed.
Because the real fear here isn't some mass invasion of Poland. It's more like a mad dash for the Baltics, followed by a threat to use nukes if there's any attempt to take back those countries. So what we need is something like a division in each Baltic country and the ability to ramp to several divisions if there is any sign of Russian buildup. Putin needs to know that if so much as sends a few buses of troops to any point along NATO's Eastern Flank, we can ramp up to put a unit there that is twice the size and 5x the firepower there within a week. That is how you deter. Polish tanks are part of this solution. But we (Canadians and Europeans) need everything else that we usually rely on the Americans for. Highly offensive air capabilities. Full spectrum Electronic Warfare. Air defence. Long range cruise missiles. Etc. I hope we get to a point where Putin cries himself to sleep every night knowing that he's a failed Tsar.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
IMO, Europe will step up, including the recently announced aid package of up to €10 billion. The US can make deals that let Putin and Russia off the hook and that support Russian economic and miliary recovery. But Europe knows that if Ukraine falls, they can be next, especially if the US becomes NATO-adverse. I think this new era of US isolationism and protectionism will remind much of the world that they must look beyond the USA; and make agreements, alliances, trade and deals amongst themselves to ensure military and economic strength. If the US is going to voluntarily step away from its postwar role of guardian of democratic and liberal world order, then life must go on for everyone else. Ukraine's only hope for staying in the fight is to that Europe realizes the need to kneecap Russia for a generation. It would have helped had the EU not bolstered the place by lazily relying on Russian hydrocarbons.
Towered
Superstar
They can talk all they want. Zelensky already announced that Ukraine will never accept any so-called deal that asks them to give up any occupied territory, so the war will continue.
Posted on the official White House Facebook page today
