[zang]

I'd be shocked if they flipped seeing the weak state of the NDP right now. Could flip Conservative, maybe, I'd be surprised though. It's not necessarily games but more, trying to reduce the Trudeau stink/leftovers and show that this is going to be different.

As Zohran Mamdani shows, a perceived-weak candidate can come in to an established riding against very strong opponents and stir things up. The problem is, have the NDP gotten out of their post-Jack "lead the people" mentality back to "let the people lead"?

 

[Richard White]

As Zohran Mamdani shows, a perceived-weak candidate can come in to an established riding against very strong opponents and stir things up. The problem is, have the NDP gotten out of their post-Jack "lead the people" mentality back to "let the people lead"?

That's the thing, I don't think they have.

The party's reputation was tainted by Jagmeet and the desire to increase party membership. They did not care about the people, they cared about winning as if it was a popularity contest.

Now, having said that.. the days of Socialism are slowly dying. Even Europe which was heavily socialist after the demise of the USSR is getting away from it in favor of right wing politics.

Unless you can get a leader like Bob Rae (Yes I know he is now a Liberal) or someone from the 2011 election the NDP will struggle. They don't need Olivia Chow, Jagmeet Singh or Andrea Horwath running but they do need someone who instills hope and optimism.

That said.. the NDP is dumb enough to elect Olivia Chow as leader because of her ties to Jack and because she is Mayor of Toronto. If they did, that would kill the party.

 

[Towered]

On again/off again but we have been seeing each other more formally since June. We dated before, broke up and then got back together. It was a maturity level thing at that point.

The issue is, when I changed my phone I lost the conversations we had together so proving the 4 year connetion is a tad difficult.

We are considering marriage to sponsor here. She has a visitor visa for a few more years so we are working on options with that as well. Worst case scenario, I prop her up for a few months while she gets everything sorted.

Don't get married. It's the smartest thing I ever did...

 

[Richard White]

Don't get married. It's the smartest thing I ever did...

Not to get too far off topic but we broke up last night and thankfully it appears I dodged a very large bullet.

When I suggested getting a place together with a reasonable split of the costs she fired back that I should pay 100% of everything to provide for her because that how it is done in Colombia. When I explained that we are in North America and not Colombia and that that's not how things work here she went off the deep end.

I wish her the best although deep down, I do hope her PR gets rejected

 

[zang]

That's the thing, I don't think they have.

The party's reputation was tainted by Jagmeet and the desire to increase party membership.

God forbid a party try and increase membership? You know that sounds ridiculous, right?

They did not care about the people, they cared about winning as if it was a popularity contest.

If all they cared about was winning, we wouldn't have had dental and pharmacare.

Now, having said that.. the days of Socialism are slowly dying. Even Europe which was heavily socialist after the demise of the USSR is getting away from it in favor of right wing politics.

I'm not sure you can claim that while interest in unions and worker rights are at their highest in decades.

Moneyed interests are moving further towards right-wing politics, often endorsing right-wing politicians who care (wink wink) about workers rights and fear of losing jobs (to a "they") as bait for votes.

Unless you can get a leader like Bob Rae (Yes I know he is now a Liberal) or someone from the 2011 election the NDP will struggle. They don't need Olivia Chow, Jagmeet Singh or Andrea Horwath running but they do need someone who instills hope and optimism.

Bob Rae wouldn't help squat for instilling hope and optimism. Not just because of a past tainted by years of painting the Ontario NDP as "destroying the province" with "Rae Days", but because Rae himself has shifted centrist. Tying anything to 2011 won't help either.

The problem with the NDP; it's been shifting closer to the centre to take over the void left by the Liberals as they've shifted fiscally right. This isn't about people becoming more right wing, it's been about jockeying for what might otherwise be considered "lost" centrist votes, instead of informing voters why they should view voting more progressive is in their best interests.

This is why Mamdani is wiping the floor in New York right now. He has no ties to a famous democratic campaign and he's not campaigning against another party's candidate; he's been out there actively showing working class people why their interests are reflected in a left-wing platform.

 

[Richard White]

God forbid a party try and increase membership? You know that sounds ridiculous, right?

Yes but Jagmeet was handing out memberships to anyone who would vote him in as leader. He did not care if they could vote in a general election.

 

[Mihairokov]

Yes but Jagmeet was handing out memberships to anyone who would vote him in as leader. He did not care if they could vote in a general election.

Source?

As Zohran Mamdani shows, a perceived-weak candidate can come in to an established riding against very strong opponents and stir things up. The problem is, have the NDP gotten out of their post-Jack "lead the people" mentality back to "let the people lead"?

I think it's a bit short-sighted and reductive to look at any left-ish candidate and wonder why they're not operating and campaigning like Mamdani. He's a specific case in a specifc area where that works, and I think the NDP or anyone else would be taking the wrong lessons from him if they think they can replicate that kind of mass swell in support. This is also a reminder that the New York Democratic Primary had ranked-choice voting, something which we do not have here as we are saddled with archaic FPTP, thanks in part to our previous federal government.

The NDP as yet have not defined themselves as a strong opposition party and thus won't stand much of any chance in University-Rosedale. In a bipolar electorate the question is between LPC and CPC in that riding.

 

[zang]

I think it's a bit short-sighted and reductive to look at any left-ish candidate and wonder why they're not operating and campaigning like Mamdani. He's a specific case in a specifc area where that works, and I think the NDP or anyone else would be taking the wrong lessons from him if they think they can replicate that kind of mass swell in support.

It's not about replicating Mamdani as much as it is the change in approach. He's not courting centrist votes. He's courting people's votes.

This is also a reminder that the New York Democratic Primary had ranked-choice voting, something which we do not have here as we are saddled with archaic FPTP, thanks in part to our previous federal government.

Mamdani won a plurality if the race had been FPTP, so ranked ballots didn't really apply. That said, the NDP use ranked ballots for party leadership.

While once a proponent of Ranked Ballots for general elections myself, I'm now of the mind that it would be of little help to any party here in Canada save the Liberals giving them majority power nearly every election. They may work for party-free or all-party races, but in a general election it'd mean monoculture for everyone.

Proportional representation now.

The NDP as yet have not defined themselves as a strong opposition party and thus won't stand much of any chance in University-Rosedale. In a bipolar electorate the question is between LPC and CPC in that riding.

It's literally been only about a half a year since the general election, they don't have a permanent leader and the party has lost its official status, it's hard to expect much of anything wide-ranging yet.

However given the MPP in the same riding is NDP, and the Liberal party's seeming shift even further right, it might be short-sighted to say that they won't stand a chance. By-elections are far more driven by boots on the ground rather than general public attention.

 

[Mihairokov]

Mamdani won a plurality if the race had been FPTP, so ranked ballots didn't really apply.

It fundamentally changes how people vote. I don't think we can assume this carries over as neatly as you're saying.

FPTP represses interest in running because anyone who doesn't finish top is automatically a loser.

However given the MPP in the same riding is NDP, and the Liberal party's seeming shift even further right, it might be short-sighted to say that they won't stand a chance. By-elections are far more driven by boots on the ground rather than general public attention.

Although this is true I don't expect turnout to be all that great as it is a general by-election. LPC will name some C-list celebrity to run in the riding and that will be that. We saw in the last election that having NDP MPPs had very little to no impact on how the federal ridings swung.

 

[Richard White]

Although this is true I don't expect turnout to be all that great as it is a general by-election. LPC will name some C-list celebrity to run in the riding and that will be that. We saw in the last election that having NDP MPPs had very little to no impact on how the federal ridings swung.

That is Scarborough Southwest in a nutshell. Our MPP is Doly Begum (NDP) and the LPC won the last election.

 

[narduch]

Just saw the Carney government is banning Irish group Kneecap from performing in Canada.

Absolutely pathetic move.

And people want to laughter at the growing fascism in the US. We already have our own brand here

 

[Richard White]

Just saw the Carney government is banning Irish group Kneecap from performing in Canada.

Absolutely pathetic move.

And people want to laughter at the growing fascism in the US. We already have our own brand here

Actually Kneecap is being banned around the globe, not just here.

They are promoting hate speech and supporting terror organizations.

 

[narduch]

Actually Kneecap is being banned around the globe, not just here.

They are promoting hate speech and supporting terror organizations.

This is not true. Speaking out against genocide isn't hate speech.

Besides they just toured Europe.

Only pathetic countries like Canada are banning them.

 

[Richard White]

This is not true. Speaking out against genocide isn't hate speech.

Besides they just toured Europe.

Only pathetic countries like Canada are banning the.

Actually some European countries banned them. Hungary banned them from performing at Sziget Fest in August for the same reasons as Canada.

 

[narduch]

Actually some European countries banned them. Hungary banned them from performing at Sziget Fest in August for the same reasons as Canada.

Lol. Hungary is hardly a country we want to be emulating.