[afransen]

I used to be against the idea of including PHEVs in the mandate. A big part of why I flipped is because I think the FUD will die really fast when a lot of PHEV buyers start to understand how much charging can be done from a regular wall outlet. They start covering most of their driving from a regular wall outlet and they'll quickly realize they can easily do this with a BEV.

Yes. I imagine a lot of PHEV buyers will grow to resent the small battery packs and the need to do all the same ICE maintenance (oil changes, etc.). And agreed, a lot can be done with a regular 15 amp plug. For many users, that would be enough, along with some conveniently located Level 2/3 chargers to top off between consecutive longer driving days. PHEVs are probably a decent compromise for vehicles that otherwise require very large battery packs, like pickups, minivans or large SUVs that might be used for towing.

The guy hosting that video is clearly just rationalizing his dislike for EVs stemming from his gearhead hobby and desire for engine noise and manual transmission.

 

[afransen]

Part of the problem here is the overselling of charging infrastructure especially by electricians who either don't know better or want an easy offering. The average commuter could actually get by with a normal wall outlet. Say 10 hrs charging to cover 60 km using the same outlet as a vacuum cleaner in the garage. But that's not going to give anybody business.

A lot of electricians are upselling panel and service upgrades, too. They are selling 40/50 amp chargers, and if the panel doesn't have room for that amount, but can accommodate 30 amps, they won't suggest field programming the charger to limit to the lower amperage. Even 24 amps at 220v is a lot of power and will easily fully charge most EVs overnight.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

A lot of electricians are upselling panel and service upgrades, too. They are selling 40/50 amp chargers, and if the panel doesn't have room for that amount, but can accommodate 30 amps, they won't suggest field programming the charger to limit to the lower amperage. Even 24 amps at 220v is a lot of power and will easily fully charge most EVs overnight.

The latest advancements in fast-charging battery technology include Zeekr's 5.5C ultra-fast charging batteries, which can charge from 10% to 80% in just 10.5 minutes. Additionally, researchers at the University of Waterloo have developed a new lithium-ion battery design that enables charging from zero to 80% in 15 minutes

 

[afransen]

The latest advancements in fast-charging battery technology include Zeekr's 5.5C ultra-fast charging batteries, which can charge from 10% to 80% in just 10.5 minutes. Additionally, researchers at the University of Waterloo have developed a new lithium-ion battery design that enables charging from zero to 80% in 15 minutes

This sounds important, but I would argue it really isn't. See a recent poster mentioning that they have driven 70k km and only rapid charged 20 times. This high C charging is only relevant for rapid charging, which for most people is a small minority of their charging experience. Usually on long road trips, a break is somewhat welcome to use a restroom. Sure, it might be nice to save 10 minutes on each stop. I'm not sure how much I would pay for that feature, compared to others.

 

[kEiThZ]

Yes. I imagine a lot of PHEV buyers will grow to resent the small battery packs and the need to do all the same ICE maintenance (oil changes, etc.). And agreed, a lot can be done with a regular 15 amp plug. For many users, that would be enough, along with some conveniently located Level 2/3 chargers to top off between consecutive longer driving days. PHEVs are probably a decent compromise for vehicles that otherwise require very large battery packs, like pickups, minivans or large SUVs that might be used for towing.

Honestly, there's few situations where Level 2 is actually required. Let's be honest, the majority of Lvl 2 is a nice to have luxury for well off homeowners who don't want to have to plug-in every night. Otherwise, the only people who genuinely need Level 2 are super commuters who drive enough in a day that even 12 hrs charging from a plug overnight won't successfully replenish. I only know one person who does that. My SiL drives 90 km each way to work. And even she only does it 2-3x per week. But they installed a L2 using a dryer outlet in the garage (Quebec). My boss just bought an Ioniq 5. She drives 45 km each way to work, and still only uses a wall outlet to charge at home. Very occasionally, she'll use the Electrify Canada fast charger at the Canadian Tire across from our office. Turns out the money to install a L2 buys a lot of charging time at fast chargers. Probably enough to cover top ups for day-to-day use, for the life of the vehicle.

The guy hosting that video is clearly just rationalizing his dislike for EVs stemming from his gearhead hobby and desire for engine noise and manual transmission.

I will never understand these folks. Enjoy your hobby. I love nice cars too and I like vroom vroom. But like horses, we're better off, if these are reserved for enthusiasts and fans, rather than as appliances for the general public. The equivalent is some aficionado of race horses in the 1900s insisting that everybody keep using draft horses and mules because of his love of thorough bred race horses.

A lot of electricians are upselling panel and service upgrades, too. They are selling 40/50 amp chargers, and if the panel doesn't have room for that amount, but can accommodate 30 amps, they won't suggest field programming the charger to limit to the lower amperage. Even 24 amps at 220v is a lot of power and will easily fully charge most EVs overnight.

Yep. There's a lot of opportunism going on. Not a lot of electricians just want to tell customers that $100 worth of work hard wiring a L1 charger is enough for most people.

The latest advancements in fast-charging battery technology include Zeekr's 5.5C ultra-fast charging batteries, which can charge from 10% to 80% in just 10.5 minutes. Additionally, researchers at the University of Waterloo have developed a new lithium-ion battery design that enables charging from zero to 80% in 15 minutes

As pointed out here, fast charging has limited relevance. What's most important is the ability to charge concurrently. The obsession with charging speed comes from a gasoline mindset where people drive to a gas station. But if you can plug in your car like you plug in your phone every night, do you care if it takes 3 hrs or 6 hrs to charge when you sleep for 8 hrs?

The only place this could matter is on road trips. And even here the limitation is rarely the battery. It's usually vehicle architecture (not enough high voltage) and infrastructure (chargers not fast enough). A Porsche Taycan with its 800V architecture can go from 5% to 80% in 22.5 mins as per Porsche. This is over 280 km range. Even with losses due to highway speeds, that's basically, at least 2 hrs of driving for a 23 min break. That's good enough for the average person. It would mean a single 15-20 min break for the average Toronto-Montreal trip if starting at home with a full battery. This is with today's technology. Faster charging batteries are nice to have. They aren't as necessary as cars simply using 800V architecture and having more 250 kW chargers installed at service centres and rest stops.

 

[afransen]

Honestly, there's few situations where Level 2 is actually required. Let's be honest, the majority of Lvl 2 is a nice to have luxury for well off homeowners who don't want to have to plug-in every night. Otherwise, the only people who genuinely need Level 2 are super commuters who drive enough in a day that even 12 hrs charging from a plug overnight won't successfully replenish. I only know one person who does that. My SiL drives 90 km each way to work. And even she only does it 2-3x per week. But they installed a L2 using a dryer outlet in the garage (Quebec). My boss just bought an Ioniq 5. She drives 45 km each way to work, and still only uses a wall outlet to charge at home. Very occasionally, she'll use the Electrify Canada fast charger at the Canadian Tire across from our office. Turns out the money to install a L2 buys a lot of charging time at fast chargers. Probably enough to cover top ups for day-to-day use, for the life of the vehicle.

I don't think home level 2 chargers are necessary. Conveniences for people who can afford them. They are very useful at workplaces and destinations where people spend a lot of time to serve those who can't charge at home. Many condos are installing them in visitor parking to serve residents and visitors alike. Commercial plazas probably also make sense, as folks can charge their car within short walking distance of home. The tricky thing is to serve the market that doesn't have a private garage with a plug.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

On May 14, 2025, the government announced a plan to reduce the lowest federal marginal personal income tax (PIT) rate from 15 per cent to 14 per cent, effective July 1, 2025. This PIT rate is also the rate for most federal non-refundable tax credits.

This makes the federal income tax for 2025 14½ %.

What's new as of July 1, 2025

• for income under $57,375, the tax rate is 14% (prorated)
• for income from $57,375 to $114,750, the tax rate is 20.5%
• for income from $114,750 to $177,882, the tax rate is 26%
• for income from $177,882 to $253,414, the tax rate is 29%
• for income of $253,414 and over, the tax rate is 33%.

No changes for the Ontario income tax rates.

 

[kEiThZ]

I don't think home level 2 chargers are necessary. Conveniences for people who can afford them.

We need more education on how useful a regular plug is. For example, there's this video of a guy doing over 320 miles (515 km) in a week using nothing but a wall outlet in his garage every night.

Many condos are installing them in visitor parking to serve residents and visitors alike.

I think this is actually a sub optimal practice driven by condo boards not knowing how to handle the billing for EV charging. They could simply provide a regular wall outlet for each parking spot and add $20-30 to condo fee and that would be a much better experience for most people.

The tricky thing is to serve the market that doesn't have a private garage with a plug.

And I think a lot of that is driven by the fact that condo boards firmly believe they have to spend a ton of money installing a whole row of Level 2, instead of just providing a NEMA 5-20 at each parking spot that lets people vacuum their cars, and charge them.

 

[PinkLucy]

I don't think home level 2 chargers are necessary. Conveniences for people who can afford them. They are very useful at workplaces and destinations where people spend a lot of time to serve those who can't charge at home. Many condos are installing them in visitor parking to serve residents and visitors alike. Commercial plazas probably also make sense, as folks can charge their car within short walking distance of home. The tricky thing is to serve the market that doesn't have a private garage with a plug.

We installed a Level 2. We have a PHEV and a full electric. The Level 2 is great when we go out in the morning with the PHEV and use up the charge, come home for lunch and charge it back up with the Level 2. Is it essential? No. Is it nice to have and an added convenience? Yes.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

It's all about how it's been framed...

White House says Canadian PM ‘caved’ to Trump demand to scrap tech tax

Trump officials hail U-turn as Mark Carney says decision to rescind digital services tax means revival of trade talks

www.theguardian.com

...elbows down, indeed. /sigh

 

[kEiThZ]

It's all about how it's been framed...

White House says Canadian PM ‘caved’ to Trump demand to scrap tech tax

Trump officials hail U-turn as Mark Carney says decision to rescind digital services tax means revival of trade talks

www.theguardian.com

...elbows down, indeed. /sigh

I am always surprised by the childish necessity to score political points. Who gives a hoot about the framing? The PM has to do what is in the best interest of workers. That's how we should be judging him. Not on how many elbows he put up.

 

[lenaitch]

We need more education on how useful a regular plug is. For example, there's this video of a guy doing over 320 miles (515 km) in a week using nothing but a wall outlet in his garage every night.

I think this is actually a sub optimal practice driven by condo boards not knowing how to handle the billing for EV charging. They could simply provide a regular wall outlet for each parking spot and add $20-30 to condo fee and that would be a much better experience for most people.



And I think a lot of that is driven by the fact that condo boards firmly believe they have to spend a ton of money installing a whole row of Level 2, instead of just providing a NEMA 5-20 at each parking spot that lets people vacuum their cars, and charge them.

To be fair, for some existing buildings, even adding multiple 120v outlets would be a not-insignificant expense. Each would have to be its own circuit, otherwise 2 vehicles charging at the same time would exceed the ampacity if the circuit (

I'm not a condo dweller and don't know the legalities of adding a new fee, but certainly, the cost of retrofitting would have to be borne collectively by all of the residents.

 

[afransen]

To be fair, for some existing buildings, even adding multiple 120v outlets would be a not-insignificant expense. Each would have to be its own circuit, otherwise 2 vehicles charging at the same time would exceed the ampacity if the circuit (

I'm not a condo dweller and don't know the legalities of adding a new fee, but certainly, the cost of retrofitting would have to be borne collectively by all of the residents.

There are some products that have been developed targeting multi-unit residential that make it more cost effective to load balance between multiple chargers and mitigate the cost of electrical upgrades, as it is generally wildly overbuilt to assume all the chargers will be used at the same time.

 

[lenaitch]

There are some products that have been developed targeting multi-unit residential that make it more cost effective to load balance between multiple chargers and mitigate the cost of electrical upgrades, as it is generally wildly overbuilt to assume all the chargers will be used at the same time.

I would assume as such. Assuming the majority of charging would be happening overnight, so long as residents are aware that their charge rate may be throttled. It think some EVSEs can internally moderate charge rate/current draw, but the installed circuits would have to be sized to assume that they aren't. Any installed current limiting would negate the use of the receptacle for other uses (i.e. vacuum) in the same way it is not Code compliant to install a dimmer on a receptacle. Throttling a Level 1 charger has a more profound impact on charge times than doing so on a Level 3.

Quite frankly, regardless of how they are ultimately connected, when you consider the cost to bore holes, install conduit and pull conductors, the difference between installing 120v outlets vs 240v (208 if 3-phase supplied) is pretty minimal.

 

[kEiThZ]

To be fair, for some existing buildings, even adding multiple 120v outlets would be a not-insignificant expense. Each would have to be its own circuit, otherwise 2 vehicles charging at the same time would exceed the ampacity if the circuit (

I'm not a condo dweller and don't know the legalities of adding a new fee, but certainly, the cost of retrofitting would have to be borne collectively by all of the residents.

I've worked with my condo board on this. We're in a set of three low rise (5-6 storeys) buildings with a common underground garage. The solution they came up with was to take guest spots outside and install high level 2 (20 kW) chargers. But the alternative they assessed? Low Level 2 (7-10 kW) at each of the 130 parking stalls. And a large chunk of the cost was paying for electric service upgrades to the building. These would have been a lot more manageable with a 120V outlet instead. Also more useful, since people can use them for other things, from a vacuum cleaner to an air compressor. Instead, for slight savings, we'd have to give up visitor parking spots, time our charging with parking Tetris and park outside. Really defeats a major advantage of having an EV: thoughtless concurrent charging while you sleep.

At 80%, a NEMA 5-20 would give 1.9 KW continuous. That's enough to add 7-10 km of range per hour for most EV. More than enough, for all but the most extreme commuters. And for 130 spots, at 2.5 KW, the total added service would have only been as much as 3 condos.