nfitz
Superstar
I see. What is the generic name for what they are using?
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- Thread starter mdrejhon
- Start date
smallspy
Senior Member
I don't know, to be honest. I will share that info once I get it.I see. What is the generic name for what they are using?
ETCS is a type of signalling system, but components of it are provided by a host of different companies, including Simens, Hitachi and Alstom.I believe it’s ETCS, and they are planning on implementing “Level 2”
But no, this is not what is installed on the Richmond Hill Line. It is a bog-standard CTC system, connected to GO's GTCS interface.
Dan
luk3yd
New Member
Perhaps I’m getting my terminology mixed up, but Metrolinx called out that they’re implementing ETCS Level 2 on this post: https://www.metrolinx.com/en/discover/world-standard-signalling-system-to-improve-go-train-serviceI don't know, to be honest. I will share that info once I get it.
ETCS is a type of signalling system, but components of it are provided by a host of different companies, including Simens, Hitachi and Alstom.
But no, this is not what is installed on the Richmond Hill Line. It is a bog-standard CTC system, connected to GO's GTCS interface.
Dan
smallspy
Senior Member
They did, yes.Perhaps I’m getting my terminology mixed up, but Metrolinx called out that they’re implementing ETCS Level 2 on this post: https://www.metrolinx.com/en/discover/world-standard-signalling-system-to-improve-go-train-service
But the install, testing and implementation of it is a multi-year process, not something that happens in a weekend. And on top of that, they haven't even selected vendors to provide the various devices needed, or the testing required to ensure that it will work in our regulatory environment.
Any flavour of ETCS is likely 8 to 10 years away from seeing active use.
Dan
luk3yd
New Member
So is the signaling system they’re implementing on the Richmond Hill line separate to the (eventual) target-state ETCS system, and will need to be completely removed when (if) ETCS is rolled out, or is it a stepping stone towards ETCS?They did, yes.
But the install, testing and implementation of it is a multi-year process, not something that happens in a weekend. And on top of that, they haven't even selected vendors to provide the various devices needed, or the testing required to ensure that it will work in our regulatory environment.
Any flavour of ETCS is likely 8 to 10 years away from seeing active use.
Dan
smallspy
Senior Member
First off, they are not implementing a new signal system on the Richmond Hill Line. They are using the existing signal system, but plugging it into a new control and interface system.So is the signaling system they’re implementing on the Richmond Hill line separate to the (eventual) target-state ETCS system, and will need to be completely removed when (if) ETCS is rolled out, or is it a stepping stone towards ETCS?
Second, there still is no clarity as to the implementation of ETCS anywhere on the GO system because no one yet has installed one in North America on an existing line. We don't know if it will be done as an overlay, or as a net-new system, removing all of the old equipment. GO may very well be the first such implementation of it, and as such, there will likely be some delays and teething issues as they work through it.
Dan
urbancog
Active Member
And Metrolinx just started the recruitment process, at Director level, for someone to provide "leadership and direction for the design, development, and execution of signalling capital infrastructure projects encompassing the GO rail corridors".Second, there still is no clarity as to the implementation of ETCS anywhere on the GO system
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smallspy
Senior Member
DB's expertise was never going to be used for any ETCS installation. As has been repeated elsewhere, they were only involved in the Operations side. They had no input in Maintenance or Construction.And Metrolinx just started the recruitment process, at Director level, for someone to provide "leadership and direction for the design, development, and execution of signalling capital infrastructure projects encompassing the GO rail corridors". Probably because DB's expertise in this are is no longer available to them due cancellation of the ONxpress O&M agreement.
They are using an Alstom product. I don't know which product specifically in their lineup it is called.I see. What is the generic name for what they are using?
Dan
urbancog
Active Member
Dan is right (again!) that DB wasn't involved in the train control system.
The Alstom press release for the initial ONxpress award states "Alstom’s scope within the consortium is anticipated to include the supply of new electric locomotives, train control systems, a new traction power system and network electrification via an overhead catenary system, as well as the integration of its scope. Alstom will also upgrade the existing GO Transit BiLevel rolling stock, signalling systems, telecommunications systems, and other digital equipment, and maintain the new locomotives and signalling system for a period of 25 years."
Initially they were awarded a work package of safety signalling upgrades and the two-year collaborative development phase. There's been another BiLevel car upgrade package but I don't think the other items (including the train control system) have been awarded yet. There's a Metrolinx Board Meeting coming up on 28-June-2025, I hope a design and construct award will be on the agenda.
The Alstom press release for the initial ONxpress award states "Alstom’s scope within the consortium is anticipated to include the supply of new electric locomotives, train control systems, a new traction power system and network electrification via an overhead catenary system, as well as the integration of its scope. Alstom will also upgrade the existing GO Transit BiLevel rolling stock, signalling systems, telecommunications systems, and other digital equipment, and maintain the new locomotives and signalling system for a period of 25 years."
Initially they were awarded a work package of safety signalling upgrades and the two-year collaborative development phase. There's been another BiLevel car upgrade package but I don't think the other items (including the train control system) have been awarded yet. There's a Metrolinx Board Meeting coming up on 28-June-2025, I hope a design and construct award will be on the agenda.
nfitz
Superstar
I mean the generic type, like ECTS or CBTC.They are using an Alstom product. I don't know which product specifically in their lineup it is called.
Doesn't the Elizabeth line use all of CBTC (east of Paddington) and then ECTS (west of Paddington). And also TPWS and AWS (west of Hillingdon and/or Hayes & Harlington)?
smallspy
Senior Member
Of the two options given, it is "none of the above".I mean the generic type, like ECTS or CBTC.
It is a RTC interface for North American CTC. There really isn't a fancy name for it like ECTS or CBTC.
If Wikipedia is to be believed - and it's usually pretty accurate about these things - that is correct.Doesn't the Elizabeth line use all of CBTC (east of Paddington) and then ECTS (west of Paddington). And also TPWS and AWS (west of Hillingdon and/or Hayes & Harlington)?
Dan