jason403
Active Member
Other than central locations, bike lanes have largely been a failure. It's more than fair that neighborhoods outside the core are not wanting them in their neighborhood at the expense of their current transportation network.
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- Thread starter Daveography
- Start date
TAS
Senior Member
What bike lane routes in particular do think have been failures?
ededed
New Member
buildings
Active Member
anybody with kids / grandkids (me), would welcome bike and multi-use paths to their neighbourhoods. Provides safety for the little ones, exercise and alt transportation options for others. . I just don't understand the resistance and backlash to positive additions to a neighbourhood; then again, I don't understand suburban developments that consist of massive 3-car garages with attached house.
The_Cat
Senior Member
I sometimes wonder if these neighbourhoods take cars because of the distance to services.
constance_chlore
Active Member
I don't have kids (yet), but this is much of what it comes down to for me. I was a teenager in car-dominated suburbia, and I remember the crushing lack of autonomy. Why would I want to inflict that on someone else?
bodsbods9090
Senior Member
Lots of the new neighbourhoods in the suburbs DO have multi-use paths, which we as a family love. Bike lanes, to me, don't seem to be necessary with these multi-use paths being built. That be a waste of money, IMO.
policyenthusiast
Active Member
Often this is where the neighborhood renewal dollars go anyway. Bike lanes can be built because the corridor is not suitable for MUPs.
I lived Downtown for a while and the bike lanes were far preferable to MUPs because it provided seperation from both pedestrians and vehicles, but I agree that it can be a bad fit for suburbs.
thommyjo
Senior Member
I somewhat agree. A few changes though that’d benefit all people:
1. Continuous crossings for all minor intersections (speed limits under 50km/hr) so that snow, ice, water are kept off paths vs corner poolings. Also improves safety for crossing for pedestrians/bikes and traffic calms vehicles. Comfort goes way up for strollers, wheelchairs, bikes too.
2. Protected intersections & a change in markings to signal bike users. All slip lanes have to get raised crossings, and should be removed when possible. These are so dangerous (I legit almost got hit by a car going over 50 on Argyll last week… he never saw me and I was there way before him).
3. Reduce “side switching” where the MUP randomly switches sides of the road. All arterials should be MUPs on both sides and residential roads should have a consistent MUP on 1 side. The indirectness and forced crossings of the current design approach often wastes time for anyone trying to use bikes for transportation vs just leisure.
4. Better shopping centre designs and parking lots. Paths should be direct/efficient and go straight to front doors. Bike parking should be easily accessed off the path. Raised crossings through the parking lot to add safety/comfort should be used too (brewery district does this ok).
5. Add centre lines. This seems silly, but legit makes a big difference. Mentally people do follow it better vs when no line. This allow bikes to better pass pedestrians. Or when possible, do an extra wide MUP in high traffic areas and do 2 way bike lines plus a pedestrian side (Calgary does this lots, we did this in Wedgwood Ravine recently).
I think a few simple changes like these would do wonders for the suburbs without needing on street bike lanes added everywhere, which isn’t needed/wise. And it’d help bikers, but also all non car users. (And arguably helps drivers be safer, especially in regards to kids, the primary pedestrians in many suburban spaces).
trevorhayden
Active Member
Would support protected and different paths for cyclists and pedestrians with adjacent roads narrowed to slow cars.
dkazzed
Active Member
There are MUPs along the arterials, through parks, utility corridors, and around storm retention ponds, and I would feel safe having my kids ride down most quiet residential streets, but the residential collectors should arguably have MUPs at minimum if not separate bike lanes, which is what they're doing with these neighbourhood renewals. MUPs are 1.5m of extra width and the cost is likely offset by going with asphalt over concrete.
fromyeg
Active Member
Rossdale Neighbourhood Renewal
We invite you to learn more about Rossdale Neighbourhood Renewal and provide your feedback on the options, benefits and tradeoffs of designs for the neighbourhood.
engaged.edmonton.ca
Survey in advance of Rossdale renewal should anyone be interested.
Nothing too crazy, should be nice when it’s all finished.
kcantor
Senior Member
I'm okay with the separate bike lanes but trying to maintain single lane bike lanes, one in each direction, with vehicular traffic in between is what forces silly things like parking on one side of a bike lane and traffic on the other (as illustrated in an earlier post). Shift that bike lane to the other side of the traffic land and make the resulting bike lane wider (it wouldn't take any more roadway width) and simply have "two way bike lanes".
I'm a believer that there will be much less resistance to bike lanes that are logically incorporated which is something we're not doing well for either the cyclists or the motorists. As for installed - or at least designated - bike lanes that have been a disaster and subsequently removed - at great expense - those were on 91st Street on the south side and 95th Avenue in the west end amongst others if I'm not mistaken.
dkazzed
Active Member
106 St and (TIL) 40 Ave actually. 91 St has a nice MUP that's a continuation of the Mill Creek Ravine MUP.
106 St and 40 Ave was an ok product (Hermitage Road minus concrete curbs and pylons, and it actually took away vehicle travel lanes which is likely where most of the backclash came from) but at the wrong time, built years before 106 St from 63 Ave to Saskatchewan Dr came to fruition and so it only connected to sharrows north, south, and west. Now that 106 St has been extended south to 51 Ave, even if 106 St are single lane directional bike lanes, I think we should revisit extending it once again south and west.
Speaking of 106 St, I do find it odd it goes from a raised single direction bike lane from Saskatchewan Dr down to 76 Ave (but I did notice the lack of timely snow clearing you've mentioned), at street level with poured concrete curbs from 76 Ave to 63 Ave even though this was built, and then they raised it again with the extension to 51 Ave.
119 Ave goes from street level two way to street level one way to raised one way. The entire stretch seemed to be low priority for snow clearing as well.
106 St and 40 Ave was an ok product (Hermitage Road minus concrete curbs and pylons, and it actually took away vehicle travel lanes which is likely where most of the backclash came from) but at the wrong time, built years before 106 St from 63 Ave to Saskatchewan Dr came to fruition and so it only connected to sharrows north, south, and west. Now that 106 St has been extended south to 51 Ave, even if 106 St are single lane directional bike lanes, I think we should revisit extending it once again south and west.
Speaking of 106 St, I do find it odd it goes from a raised single direction bike lane from Saskatchewan Dr down to 76 Ave (but I did notice the lack of timely snow clearing you've mentioned), at street level with poured concrete curbs from 76 Ave to 63 Ave even though this was built, and then they raised it again with the extension to 51 Ave.
119 Ave goes from street level two way to street level one way to raised one way. The entire stretch seemed to be low priority for snow clearing as well.
ntt1
Active Member
The whole 106 Street from 51 Ave to 29 Ave is ripe for collector road renewal, imo. Those are some of the worst painted bike gutters in terms of road condition, and feel overbuilt for a residential collector road, particularly between 40 Ave and 51 Ave (Duggan to Southgate). Though I imagine more construction in that area might not be that popular given the sewer work that's been ongoing there for the last 2+ years.
As for the single lane design through Allendale and McKernan (76 Ave), let's hope that design is never used again by the city. Hard curbs, awkward turns for parking bays, parked cars so close by, and the bus stop ramps do not make for the best cycling experience for everyone.