[Bojaxs]

Nothing is more damning than a line which has already been proven inadequate in terms of compatibility (ALTO, exo) and capacity before even the first passenger has been transported. It is almost as if you should never outsource strategic transportation planning to an investor…

I wonder if keeping the Deux-Montagnes line in EXO's hands and simply upgrading the line to something more akin to the Caltrain with the Stadler KISS trains would have been a better option than completely converting the line to a metro. Would we still be able to run VIA trains under Mount Royal?

 

[Kyle Campbell]

I wonder if keeping the Deux-Montagnes line in EXO's hands and simply upgrading the line to something more akin to the Caltrain with the Stadler KISS trains would have been a better option than completely converting the line to a metro. Would we still be able to run VIA trains under Mount Royal?

I'm not sure Transport Canada would have allowed that. There's some exemptions and restrictions on the way Ottawa's FLIRTs and LINTs interact with FRA compliant trains. The KISS also would likely need the same kind of exemptions, I'm not sure they'd be allowed to share track with VIA trains

Freight trains do cross the line, and once in a blue moon share it to get to an NRC facility near the airport, but they are limited to low speeds

Caltrain has a similar waiver on its line from the FRA

 

[Urban Sky]

Also @Urban Sky is on point. REM, as delivered has been a disaster for the long term for Montreal. Don't let them or anyone associated w/them touch anything to do w/Montreal Transit ever again.

Instead, we are rewarding the CDPQi by allowing them to finance HFR/ALTO, i.e., the very project to which they arrogantly added $10 billion by their own unforced errors.

I'm not sure Transport Canada would have allowed that. There's some exemptions and restrictions on the way Ottawa's FLIRTs and LINTs interact with FRA compliant trains. The KISS also would likely need the same kind of exemptions, I'm not sure they'd be allowed to share track with VIA trains

Freight trains do cross the line, and once in a blue moon share it to get to an NRC facility near the airport, but they are limited to low speeds

Caltrain has a similar waiver on its line from the FRA

You would have had to equip the line with whatever train control technology Canada adapts, just like the rest of VIA Rail’s and CN’s network. So absolutely no showstopper.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Instead, we are rewarding the CDPQi by allowing them to finance HFR/ALTO, i.e., the very project to which they arrogantly added $10 billion by their own unforced errors.

You would have had to equip the line with whatever train control technology Canada adapts, just like the rest of VIA Rail’s and CN’s network. So absolutely no showstopper.

I thought there was an exemption around crash requirements too, which would preclude the heavier VIA trains from sharing revenue trackage with something like a KISS. The VIA trains would have to move at low speeds when on the same track

North American trains are still bound by rules from the steam age, which makes it amazing that we've started to see Euro spec trains at all. I'd love to see more. The FLIRTs are really pleasant, and the KISS I imagine would be similar

 

[Urban Sky]

I thought there was an exemption around crash requirements too, which would preclude the heavier VIA trains from sharing revenue trackage with something like a KISS.

Protected signals (i.e., signals enforced by automatic train protection) enforce the physical separation of compliant and non-compliant trains. How do you think VIA and OC Transpo shared a track diamond prior to the construction of that grade separation?

The VIA trains would have to move at low speeds when on the same track

I don’t know what that speed limit would be, but the travel time savings of exceeding, say, 100 km/h (60 mph) would be rather marginal (e.g., 2 minutes, at most) between Gare Centrale and De La Concorde.

North American trains are still bound by rules from the steam age, which makes it amazing that we've started to see Euro spec trains at all. I'd love to see more. The FLIRTs are really pleasant, and the KISS I imagine would be similar

Correct, and they are increasingly considered for North American uses…

 

[asher__jo]

Instead, we are rewarding the CDPQi by allowing them to finance HFR/ALTO, i.e., the very project to which they arrogantly added $10 billion by their own unforced errors.

Let’s keep the hating to the relevant forums. No one was screaming bloody murder when they made they built the Canada line in Vancouver. As much as I hate it, P3 are here to stay.

 

[nfitz]

I got to ride it in early 2020, just before it was rerouted out of the Mont Royal Tunnel. At the time, ridership was fairly low on my train (a late afternoon departure from Central Station) but I can’t imagine it with the very lengthy detour.

The detour is temporary because of the tunnel closure and REM not opened yet.

If the REM opens, it will terminates at the REM station it will be direct enough, and then 3 stops to down.

In the meantime, you just change at Metro Sauvé on the Orange Line. The BS on YouTube seems to be worsening.

 

[Northern Light]

Let’s keep the hating to the relevant forums. No one was screaming bloody murder when they made they built the Canada line in Vancouver. As much as I hate it, P3 are here to stay.

The post you quoted did not involve any hating on anyone so far as I could tell, it simply accurately described the failure of the Caisse to provide good, well planned infrastructure that served Montreal's long term interests.

***

P3s should not be here to stay, we keep talking about the higher cost of building transit here and there is no greater factor than P3s.

 

[asher__jo]

P3s should not be here to stay, we keep talking about the higher cost of building transit here and there is no greater factor than P3s.

The financing of a P3 is far too compelling, offloading a ton of debt to the private sector. Yes that does drive up costs of projects, but it allows you to find more or larger projects because of that fiscal room gained with cost sharing of p3.

 

[Northern Light]

The financing of a P3 is far too compelling, offloading a ton of debt to the private sector.

I get the appeal of putting the debt on a private sector partner's books.

Yes that does drive up costs of projects

A lot. Private financing commercial lending rates in Canada double what government bonds would be. That's huge difference over a 25-year amortization.

, but it allows you to find more or larger projects because of that fiscal room gained with cost sharing of p3.

But it doesn't over any 25-year period. The private sector doesn't pay for it, the public sector does. Its just that we pay it back in installments over 25 years.

Except we're now spending far more on Project 'x' that we would have had we financed it in-house.

That leaves room for fewer projects, not more.

***

Additionally, the larger the tender and more it includes beyond just traditional construction. Notably financing, and in many cases operating........means two other cost drivers.

1) Risk premium. Who in their right mind is taking on the risk on a billions or tens of billions for free? You offset that by padding your contingency and literally charging a risk-fee.

2) The huge tender scope drives away most bidders. Ontario has repeatedly awarded P3 tenders when there was literally only 1 bidder. No competition at all. Very rare to see more than 2 bidders. As opposed to a traditional construction only tender where you would expect at least 4 bidders and sometimes many more.

 

[asher__jo]

But it doesn't over any 25-year period. The private sector doesn't pay for it, the public sector does. Its just that we pay it back in installments over 25 years.

Politics functions in 5 year election cycles. Of course actual budget planning is far more long term, but the public doesn’t see or understand that. Not something I’m a fan of, but when you live next to America certain trends tend to prevail.

 

[Rogue2016]

Problems continue with REM:

ARTM to resume all-day shuttle buses as REM disruptions persist​

https://www.montrealgazette.com/news/article821889.html

 

[Kyle Campbell]

From 2019. The comments from Caisse haven't aged well

Speaking for the Caisse, Emmanuelle Rouillard-Moreau said the model of Alstom trains chosen for the REM is much more robust than the model used in Ottawa. That train is more like a tramway, whereas the REM model will be more like a métro. Siemiatycki said both Bombardier and Alstom have their issues, and he’s not convinced that the Caisse’s choice of trains could be problematic. He said the trains chosen for the REM are similar to the trains in use in Vancouver’s Canada Line, which was inaugurated in 2009, with trains built by the company Hyundai Rotem. That project, which was also built by the Caisse, has been a resounding success, Siemiatycki said.

Rouillard-Moreau said the trains chosen for the REM have one of the best track records for reliability in the world. She added that automated light rail systems are known for their dependability and are in use in major cities including Vancouver, Paris, Rome and Barcelona.

https://www.montrealgazette.com/news/article226890.html

 

[Northern Light]

The Feds out on the last day before the election chipping in an additional 650M for the Blue Line extension.

Federal government announces investments in two major transit infrastructure projects in Quebec - Canada.ca

Today, the Government of Canada is announcing an additional federal contribution of more than $1.1 billion to help complete the Quebec City tramway and Montréal Metro Blue line extension projects. These investments in critical infrastructure are essential to help build the strongest economy in...

www.canada.ca

From the above:

***

Since we don't have a Quebec City Transit thread..............I don't think........ I'll post that part of the pressers as well:

 

[just east of the creek]

The Feds out on the last day before the election chipping in an additional 650M for the Blue Line extension.

Federal government announces investments in two major transit infrastructure projects in Quebec - Canada.ca

Today, the Government of Canada is announcing an additional federal contribution of more than $1.1 billion to help complete the Quebec City tramway and Montréal Metro Blue line extension projects. These investments in critical infrastructure are essential to help build the strongest economy in...

www.canada.ca

From the above:

View attachment 638813
***

Since we don't have a Quebec City Transit thread..............I don't think........ I'll post that part of the pressers as well:

View attachment 638814

I like the Blue Line extension, but what do Montrealers think?