[Kyle Campbell]

I don't recall any serious problems with either the new Toronto streetcars or the newest GO cars. There were some welding problems a decade ago on some of the earliest Flexitys - but they were fixed by Bombardier at their expense.

The welding problems and delays with the streetcars and early crosstown vehicles were so bad that Metrolinx bought the Citadis trams as a hedge for Line 6, plus all the legal battles.

But in both cases they were first generation vehicles, much like the troubled Citadis in Ottawa. ETS seems to be having better luck with their vehicles that are later in the line. The Citadis Metrolinx received were built after all the door failure and other hijinx of Ottawa, and will probably be much more reliable.

Just like they say never buy the first model year of a car, the first few sets of trains are often problematic.

The later trains in the order for Exo will probably be fine, but quality always seems to be a problem in the beginning lately.

In the case of the Flexities and KISS they've been in production for quite a while in Europe and were built there and shipped here, long after kinks had been worked out by European customers

 

[nfitz]

In the case of the Flexities and KISS they've been in production for quite a while in Europe and were built there and shipped here, long after kinks had been worked out by European customers

The welding issues about a decade ago weren't related to work done in Europe.

And are hardly the evidence of "lately". Since then, the Flexity introduction seems to have gone very well - especially compared to many other vehicles.

And what's the issue with GO equipment?

Metrolinx's legal action was so incompetent and unnecessary that the courts gave Bombarider huge damages.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

The welding issues about a decade ago weren't related to work done in Europe.

And are hardly the evidence of "lately". Since then, the Flexity introduction seems to have gone very well - especially compared to many other vehicles.

And what's the issue with GO equipment?

Metrolinx's legal action was so incompetent and unnecessary that the courts gave Bombarider huge damages.

There were lots of delays though for the Flexities on the crosstown, which I thought was the main part of the suit. Of course history has now shown there's been plenty of time, the lawsuit was unnecessary.


No issues with the GO equipment. It was just a comment that if they bring in new equipment with Electrification that they consider Stadler. The trains are really nice. But AFAIK it's only the engines that will be new, not whole new trainsets

As for the CRCC trains, according to the article the floors weren't sealed properly and salty water from melting snow on passengers boots was leaking into the equipment below. CRCC has given EXO a fix and apparently has ensured new cars will be properly sealed. Time will tell if there's other quality issues

 

[nfitz]

There were lots of delays though for the Flexities on the crosstown, which I thought was the main part of the suit. Of course history has now shown there's been plenty of time, the lawsuit was unnecessary.

The contemporary ruling showed the lawsuit was unnecessary. Metrolinx had refused delivery of the prototype for months since fall 2015, because Metrolinx had nowhere to ship it to. And in their court filing, Metrolinx claimed that the Eglinton Line was on-time and on-budget, despite that there'd been years of delays in awarding the primary contract (to Crosslinx) - which wasn't finally awarded until 2015 - over 5 years after they issued the contract for the vehicles.

On-time and on-budget. LOL. The relatively minor Bombardier issues are nothing compared to the quality issues and delays we've seen with the Communist Party of China's manufacturing arms.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

The contemporary ruling showed the lawsuit was unnecessary. Metrolinx had refused delivery of the prototype for months since fall 2015, because Metrolinx had nowhere to ship it to. And in their court filing, Metrolinx claimed that the Eglinton Line was on-time and on-budget, despite that there'd been years of delays in awarding the primary contract (to Crosslinx) - which wasn't finally awarded until 2015 - over 5 years after they issued the contract for the vehicles.

On-time and on-budget. LOL. The relatively minor Bombardier issues are nothing compared to the quality issues and delays we've seen with the Communist Party of China's manufacturing arms.

True. At least there's positve signs out of Boston for their CRCC equipment. They are exceeding their reliability targets to a fair degree now, and are finally being delivered on time.

After reset, MBTA finds new trains ‘performing right off the bat’

The quality of newly-delivered Red and Orange Line cars has “gotten better” in recent months,

www.boston25news.com

To be fair though, Exo did make change orders and demands to increase CanCon after the order was placed, so they are partially responsible for the delays

 

[smallspy]

There were lots of delays though for the Flexities on the crosstown, which I thought was the main part of the suit. Of course history has now shown there's been plenty of time, the lawsuit was unnecessary.

No, there weren't.

The main issues stemmed from Metrolinx fearing that there were going to be delays to the Crosstown cars due to the delays to the TTC legacy fleet order. That and due to fact that the projects that the cars had been ordered for had been scaled back meant that they didn't need such a large fleet.

Once the two parties got to court Metrolinx got laughed out - not the least of which was because they were making these claims and didn't even have a place to take delivery of the cars that were then being manufactured.

Dan

 

[Kyle Campbell]

In other news, the REM is not having a good winter:

REM experiencing slowdown yet again due to ‘technical issue’

The Réseau express métropolitain is having service delays yet again due to a 'technical problem.'

www.ctvnews.ca

I don't think Montrealers have soured on the REM quite as much Ottawans the confed line, but the initial gloating from down the road over Ottawa's headaches has definitely subsided.

 

[Urban Sky]

In other news, the REM is not having a good winter:

REM experiencing slowdown yet again due to ‘technical issue’

The Réseau express métropolitain is having service delays yet again due to a 'technical problem.'

www.ctvnews.ca

I don't think Montrealers have soured on the REM quite as much Ottawans the confed line, but the initial gloating from down the road over Ottawa's headaches has definitely subsided.

We are also not as dependent on the REM, which mostly links Longeuil and (eventually) small parts of Laval and West Island (as well as the airport) with downtown. The backbone of urban transportation are the Green and Orange Lines of the Metro, not the REM…

 

[Kyle Campbell]

We are also not as dependent on the REM, which mostly links Longeuil and (eventually) small parts of Laval and West Island (as well as the airport) with downtown. The backbone of urban transportation are the Green and Orange Lines of the Metro, not the REM…

Definitely true. When the confed line goes down it basically brings much of Ottawa's transit system to a halt

Once the Deux Montagnes and West Island branches open though, the REM will definitely be the backbone for a large number of riders, who may never even need to transfer to the Metro

 

[Urban Sky]

Once the Deux Montagnes and West Island branches open though, the REM will definitely be the backbone for a large number of riders, who may never even need to transfer to the Metro

The REM will still be a primary suburban network with very limited utility to most Montrealers, except when going to the airport…

 

[Kyle Campbell]

The REM will still be a primary suburban network with very limited utility to most Montrealers, except when going to the airport…

Sorry, terminology mismatch. To someone from Ottawa (like me), Montrealer encompases the entire metro, not just the city of Montreal. So read "Montreal Suburbanites" when I say Montrealer . We do the same to people in the GTA. Someone from Vaughan or Missassauga can be grouped in as a "Torontonian", probably to the appall of both actual Torontonians and those from York or Missassauga.

It doesn't really work in reverse, as Ottawa's amalgamated region is so large that only the most far flung of exurbs is outside the city limits, so we're all Ottawans. There's enough room in Ottawa's city limits to shove the entire city of Toronto + the island of montreal without displacing any of urban Ottawa

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Maybe a little more grumbling than I thought

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/rem-montreal-shutdown-service-1.7465199

 

[NoahB]

"first phase" of the Tram of the East was approved by the provincial government. The full project is expected to cost $18.6-billion for the 31 station, 38km. It seems the plan now is to include 7km and 3 extra stations over last years incarnation.

Design and tendoring starts now until a builder is selected in 2027 with construction expected to start that year.

The article also mentiones that this will use a contract similar to wahat they did with the REM but not sure what actually means.

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2025/03/04/tramway-de-lest--feu-vert-pour-la-premiere-phase-du-projet-structurant

La Presse has more details.
Total cost: $18.6 billion, including $6.7 billion in construction, $4.4 billion in indexation and $3.8 billion in risks.

They mention an underground segment but it is unclear to me where.

Est de Montréal | Le tramway mis sur les rails

La première pelletée de terre prendra encore quelques années, mais c’est confirmé : le projet de tramway de l’est de Montréal est officiellement sur les rails. Le gouvernement Legault autorise Mobilité Infra Québec à lancer les premières étapes pour amener un mode de transport collectif lourd...

www.lapresse.ca

 

[NoahB]

The articles calls this a tram. Without extensive signal priority, this project will be a lot slower than the Rem de l'Est it replaces.

Keep in mind that this tramway is planned to be longer than the Yonge-University line in Toronto. Finch to Union takes 30min on 15km. Vaughan to Union is about 45min on about 23km.

The tram will likely be at street level and in many (if not most) of its segments. This will take forever to get someone to the Metro/Downtown.

However, with tighter station spacing, it will work well enough as a local connector. It also has multiple connections to the Metro and EXO.

 

[asher__jo]

They mention an underground segment but it is unclear to me where.

From what I’ve seen in the ARTM report 31 km of the 38 km line is at surface. It appears grade separation is limited to Metro interchanges and rail or Autoroute crossings.

The articles calls this a tram. Without extensive signal priority, this project will be a lot slower than the Rem de l'Est it replaces.

Yeah, as does the rest of the world. Trams aren’t some dirty word that needs to thrown around on here because of outdated information and a strong resistance to them in Toronto.