[Kyle Campbell]

From what I’ve seen in the ARTM report 31 km of the 38 km line is at surface. It appears grade separation is limited to Metro interchanges and rail or Autoroute crossings.

Yeah, as does the rest of the world. Trams aren’t some dirty word that needs to thrown around on here because of outdated information and a strong resistance to them in Toronto.

There's a lot more detail here:

https://www.artm.quebec/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/RP_PSE_AC_VFinale_2024-05-28.pdf

The report shows lots of options at various points, but generally they have recommended on surface, like Finch for most of the length. The big exception is here. From 81st ave under the river, they recommend the tunnel option, with the following logic:

"Les coûts de construction d’un tunnel et d’un pont sont équivalents. L’option de latraversée en tunnel a donc été retenue puisque la construction d’un pont présente descontraintes environnementales importantes qui exigeraient des mesures de mitigationcompte tenu de la présence de milieux humides sensibles, de la faune aquatique et desrives à protéger."

Which I would translate as: The costs for a tunnel and a bridge are equivalent. The option to cross the river by tunnel is retained because the construction of a bridge introduces environmental constraints that require mitigation measures to protect sensitive wetlands, aquatic wildlife and river banks.

 

[Thaboss]

Yeah, as does the rest of the world. Trams aren’t some dirty word that needs to thrown around on here because of outdated information and a strong resistance to them in Toronto

Is this the plan that replaces the REM extension that NIMBYs managed to kill?

 

[Urban Sky]

Is this the plan that replaces the REM extension that NIMBYs managed to kill?

The CDPQi has nobody than themselves to blame for the aborted plans for its REM de l’Est. You can ambush your critics and bulldoze over all their concerns once, but the second time, everyone knows that the only way to prevent a CDPQi project from getting build in a way which is needlessly disruptive is to fight it nail and teeth from the first moment it surfaces.

I have posted over on the “ALTO HSR” thread how large-scale infrastructure plans in Germany are constantly refined in an open dialogue with all stakeholders and there is no reason the same consensual and litigation-minimizing approach couldn’t be applied here:

Crosspost from: https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...oronto-quebec-city.41303/page-23#post-2205739

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Is this the plan that replaces the REM extension that NIMBYs managed to kill?

It is.

 

[asher__jo]

The CDPQi has nobody than themselves to blame for the aborted plans for its REM de l’Est. You can ambush your critics and bulldoze over all their concerns once, but the second time, everyone knows that the only way to prevent a CDPQi project from getting build in a way which is needlessly disruptive is to fight it nail and teeth from the first moment it surfaces.

I have posted over on the “ALTO HSR” thread how large-scale infrastructure plans in Germany are constantly refined in an open dialogue with all stakeholders and there is no reason the same consensual and litigation-minimizing approach couldn’t be applied here:
View attachment 634767View attachment 634768
Crosspost from: https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...oronto-quebec-city.41303/page-23#post-2205739

You’re, no nimbys to blame at all

 

[Urban Sky]

You’re, no nimbys to blame at all

It was of course the NIMBYs who killed it in the end, but I can’t blame them for learning from the experiences of anyone voicing concerns about the original REM and that was that either you kill the project right away or you will get it shoved down your thoat without any attempt to mitigate justified concerns about relatively minor aspects of the entire project.

It’s the CDPQi which left nothing but scorched earth from whatever strategic transportation planning ever existed in this city and we will have to spend decades before we can tackle a new rail transit project. If you can’t anticipate and mitigate NIMBYism, you shouldn’t be in transportation planning…

 

[Bojaxs]

Instead of building the tram, has the city put any thought into converting the Mascouche line into an extension of the REM? After all, the REM was born out of converting the Deux-Montagnes line.

Seems pointless to hold onto the Mascouche line as an EXO line, when it can no longer terminate at La Gare Centrale and can't go to Lucien- L'Allier.

Allow EXO to focus all it's attention on improving the 3 lines that terminate at Lucien-L'allier.

EDIT: Ah neverminded. I just noticed that most of the tracks on the Mascouche line are owned by CN.

 

[Rogue2016]

Instead of building the tram, has the city put any thought into converting the Mascouche line into an extension of the REM? After all, the REM was born out of converting the Deux-Montagnes line.

Seems pointless to hold onto the Mascouche line as an EXO line, when it can no longer terminate at La Gare Centrale and can't go to Lucien- L'Allier.

Allow EXO to focus all it's attention on improving the 3 lines that terminate at Lucien-L'allier.

EDIT: Ah neverminded. I just noticed that most of the tracks on the Mascouche line are owned by CN.

I believe that the Mascouche Line still terminates at Gare Centrale - it's just a longer/roundabout way of getting there now that access to the Mount Royal tunnel is exclusively only for REM - at least it appears so from the EXO map:

Exo - Line 15 - Mascouche

Learn more about the Mascouche line.

exo.quebec

 

[Kyle Campbell]

While I've never ridden it myself, I'm curious if others share the opinion of this content creator

 

[ShonTron]

While I've never ridden it myself, I'm curious if others share the opinion of this content creator

I got to ride it in early 2020, just before it was rerouted out of the Mont Royal Tunnel. At the time, ridership was fairly low on my train (a late afternoon departure from Central Station) but I can’t imagine it with the very lengthy detour.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Instead of building the tram, has the city put any thought into converting the Mascouche line into an extension of the REM? After all, the REM was born out of converting the Deux-Montagnes line.

Seems pointless to hold onto the Mascouche line as an EXO line, when it can no longer terminate at La Gare Centrale and can't go to Lucien- L'Allier.

Allow EXO to focus all it's attention on improving the 3 lines that terminate at Lucien-L'allier.

EDIT: Ah neverminded. I just noticed that most of the tracks on the Mascouche line are owned by CN.

You could probably put parallel REM tracks in the right of way, like the Ontario Line.

However I feel adding a fourth branch is way too many branches going through the tunnel to allow for growth in REM ridership and more frequent headways

 

[Urban Sky]

However I feel adding a fourth branch is way too many branches going through the tunnel to allow for growth in REM ridership and more frequent headways

Oh, the wisdom of replacing a (pending minimal investments) high-capacity heavy rail corridor with a low-capacity toy train…!

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Oh, the wisdom of replacing a (pending minimal investments) high-capacity heavy rail corridor with a low-capacity toy train…!

Well, the vehicles themselves could be high capacity, The Sydney Metro runs them in 6 car sets. But it seems the REMs limiting factor much like the Canada line, is platform length with no real provision for longer vehicles in the future.

 

[Urban Sky]

Well, the vehicles themselves could be high capacity, The Sydney Metro runs them in 6 car sets. But it seems the REMs limiting factor much like the CDPQs Canada line, is platform length with no real provision for longer vehicles in the future.

Nothing is more damning than a line which has already been proven inadequate in terms of compatibility (ALTO, exo) and capacity before even the first passenger has been transported. It is almost as if you should never outsource strategic transportation planning to an investor…

 

[Northern Light]

"first phase" of the Tram of the East was approved by the provincial government. The full project is expected to cost $18.6-billion for the 31 station, 38km. It seems the plan now is to include 7km and 3 extra stations over last years incarnation.

Design and tendoring starts now until a builder is selected in 2027 with construction expected to start that year.

The article also mentiones that this will use a contract similar to wahat they did with the REM but not sure what actually means.

View attachment 634387

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2025/03/04/tramway-de-lest--feu-vert-pour-la-premiere-phase-du-projet-structurant

La Presse has more details.
Total cost: $18.6 billion, including $6.7 billion in construction, $4.4 billion in indexation and $3.8 billion in risks.

They mention an underground segment but it is unclear to me where.

Est de Montréal | Le tramway mis sur les rails

La première pelletée de terre prendra encore quelques années, mais c’est confirmé : le projet de tramway de l’est de Montréal est officiellement sur les rails. Le gouvernement Legault autorise Mobilité Infra Québec à lancer les premières étapes pour amener un mode de transport collectif lourd...

www.lapresse.ca

I'll be blunt, this is a waste of money.

Its ill conceived. There's nothing wrong w/trams, there's nothing wrong w./better serving the east end of Montreal, but the value for money in this proposition isn't there.

First, deliver the damned blue line extension already.

Second, consider taking it (Blue) one station further so that it drops into the Sherbrooke Corrdior.

Alternative, extend the Green Line, but not the entire length of the corridor, , only to Honore-Beaugrand, or thereabouts, then upgrade bus service from there.

Then just invest in transit-priority for buses, which will have a shorter connection to the subway system

****

In either scenario the perpendicular service, N-S up St. Leonard needs to be treated independently. I don't have a firm position on route or tech for that one.

****

Also @Urban Sky is on point. REM, as delivered has been a disaster for the long term for Montreal. Don't let them or anyone associated w/them touch anything to do w/Montreal Transit ever again.