[torontowest91]

No.

Didn't happen.

They bought the leases of Zellers, from HBC.

They did not occupy any former Sears locations.

I wish they only started with 20 stores and slowly scaled up... I do miss Target. I feel like if they were open now they could of survived. Target was a bit nicer/more premium than Walmart.

Also makes you think - If Nordstrom was still open (after Hudson Bay closed) would they have survived better?

 

[nightstreak]

I wish they only started with 20 stores and slowly scaled up... I do miss Target. I feel like if they were open now they could of survived. Target was a bit nicer/more premium than Walmart.

Also makes you think - If Nordstrom was still open (after Hudson Bay closed) would they have survived better?

Nordstrom suffered from the same mistake Eatons and The Bay all followed to their death: they forgot that department stores were the "store of the people". Remember Eatons... oh, I'm sorry lowercase eatons aubergine relaunch? It went upscale and "the people" stopped shopping there. The Bay did the same to an extent. Even down to their liquidation, prices were marked up far over what you could get at brand stores. Even their house brands were expensive. They mistook heritage for upper class and forgot where they came from. There is no place for upscale department stores, so Nordstrom would have still gone under without Hudson's Bay in the market.

 

[Northern Light]

Nordstrom suffered from the same mistake Eatons and The Bay all followed to their death: they forgot that department stores were the "store of the people". Remember Eatons... oh, I'm sorry lowercase eatons aubergine relaunch? It went upscale and "the people" stopped shopping there. The Bay did the same to an extent. Even down to their liquidation, prices were marked up far over what you could get at brand stores. Even their house brands were expensive. They mistook heritage for upper class and forgot where they came from. There is no place for upscale department stores, so Nordstrom would have still gone under without Hudson's Bay in the market.

I very much disagree.

HBC's best performing stores were the fully renovated up-market ones.

The drain on the business was the older B and C stores in suburbs and small towns.

****

Nordstrom's mistake here wasn't being Nordstrom.

It was not having a Canadian Head office, not having experienced Canadian retailers at the helm. Overestimating their brand recognition in Ontario, underestimating their competition (Holts) and some poor design choices
in the TEC store in particular.

For comparison, btw, the Vancouver store was a top 3 performer for the chain and very profitable. The difference is that Vancouverites had been going to Nordstrom in Seattle for years........
so better brand recognition; and with Head Office in Seattle, the level of support and attention that Vancouver got was high, and there was better recognition of the market there.

Toronto didn't get that attention, and Nordstrom head office didn't provide the requisite attention.

****

For clarity, clearly they were not going to turn a suburban Regina store, or Eglinton Square into a high end store, and they didn't.

Those stores, if retained at all required a different branding/strategy.

There is space in the market for a middle retailer between Walmart and Holts/Nordstrom.

But it is a challenging space to navigate.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

I’d suggest it’s also very possible the high end HBC stores were their top performers for being the best implementation of their model, rather than an indication that was the correct model to follow.

But yeah, even in the recent past the Zellers launch should have been closer to a full rebadge of stores not suited to that high end aesthetic.

 

[officedweller]

You can add Woodward's to that list of stores that tried to go upmarket but failed.

 

[RGB_11]

It's interesting to note that my "friends" (mere acquaintances, lol) over at the Holt Renfrew tell me they don't want the Bay space @ Yorkdale.
They are very much happy where they are because they are among a bunch of other upscale stores,
where as the Bay was
not as high end, and the environment (stores etc) in that part of the mall are not as high end. The foot traffic for higher class individuals wouldn't be as high.
They're just waiting to see what happens next.
Strictly for example purposes, they said "if a Giant Tiger goes in there, we're outta here!" (not gonna happen, lol)
Long story short, they are happy where they are, but if the mall slides down to a level lower than the bay, they won't see desire to be there.
Too much of the "other" traffic in the mall, and not enough upscale clientele.
Things do still look good with Simons opening soon, but Canadian tire, or whoever, better not plop just any old store in that space... (& Yorkdale, traditionally speaking is very strict on what can open in that mall...hope they stay strict!)

 

[officedweller]

Is that speaking from HR's experience at Square One?

 

[matrix]

It's interesting to note that my "friends" (mere acquaintances, lol) over at the Holt Renfrew tell me they don't want the Bay space @ Yorkdale.
They are very much happy where they are because they are among a bunch of other upscale stores,
where as the Bay was
not as high end, and the environment (stores etc) in that part of the mall are not as high end. The foot traffic for higher class individuals wouldn't be as high.

That makes sense. I wouldn't expect Holts to want to move into the Bay space when they practically have their own wing of the upscale end of the mall. Kind of a no-brainer.

Is that speaking from HR's experience at Square One?

I have a feeling it's similar to Holt being in the "upscale" part of Yorkdale- at SQ1 it's the same with them. They came with the luxury wing and stay far away from anything less higher-end (although they are very close to GAP and H&M location-wise in the mall, those are not really seen as rock-bottom brands). It makes sense for the brand's image. And given this about Yorkdale, I wouldn't expect them to want the leases in any of the suburban malls either. I think HR is doing fine with the locations they have and shouldn't be rushing to expand anyway.

 

[TossYourJacket]

That makes sense. I wouldn't expect Holts to want to move into the Bay space when they practically have their own wing of the upscale end of the mall. Kind of a no-brainer.


I have a feeling it's similar to Holt being in the "upscale" part of Yorkdale- at SQ1 it's the same with them. They came with the luxury wing and stay far away from anything less higher-end (although they are very close to GAP and H&M location-wise in the mall, those are not really seen as rock-bottom brands). It makes sense for the brand's image. And given this about Yorkdale, I wouldn't expect them to want the leases in any of the suburban malls either. I think HR is doing fine with the locations they have and shouldn't be rushing to expand anyway.

Yeah, I think the failure of Nordstrom in Canada (who did go into more "middle-to-upper-middle class" malls like Sherway, TEC, etc) has kinda justified Holts keeping their store count small and targeted to luxury malls (with a few exceptions obviously, Square One and the Vancouver Pacific Centre come to mind for those, but as you mentioned, they're in the "fancy" part of Square One, and for the Pacific Centre they're in a separate building connected via skybridge to the mall (although it is officially part of the mall, it used to be a multi-level atrium with stores around it that got completely gutted and turned into Holt Renfrew)).

I definitely can't see them taking any of the Bay leases. Queen St would be a downgrade from their current location along the Mink Mile, meanwhile STC, Sherway and Fairview aren't high-end enough malls to warrant expansion.

The only Toronto mall I could imagine them maybe ever expanding to is Bayview Village, given it's focus on (mainly entry-level) luxury, but I honestly don't see it happening. It has a Loblaws in it after all.

 

[RGB_11]

The only Toronto mall I could imagine them maybe ever expanding to is Bayview Village, given it's focus on (mainly entry-level) luxury, but I honestly don't see it happening. It has a Loblaws in it after all.

& also a Shoppers drug mart.
Bayview Village DOES want to be known as a classy upscale mall though, so it's an idea...but wouldn't HR have moved into the mall long before now if they ever had any desire to be there?

 

[Richard White]

& also a Shoppers drug mart.
Bayview Village DOES want to be known as a classy upscale mall though, so it's an idea...but wouldn't HR have moved into the mall long before now if they ever had any desire to be there?

To be fair.. Bayview Village is smaller and out of the way.

Holts is fine where they are. They are right where they need to be.

 

[matrix]

Sherway and Fairview aren't high-end enough malls to warrant expansion.

HR used to be at Sherway but they closed shop there long ago. Doubt they want to re-enter that mall. If you ask me Sherway should put a movie theater in either of those empty anchor boxes.

 

[Dan416]

HR used to be at Sherway but they closed shop there long ago. Doubt they want to re-enter that mall. If you ask me Sherway should put a movie theater in either of those empty anchor boxes.

That's actually a good idea with the Queensway Cineplex closing.

 

[matrix]

That's actually a good idea with the Queensway Cineplex closing.

Yup. I was busy at work so I didn't want to get into it, but that gap is opening soon and Sherway could see some nice revenue from entertainment instead of retail. There is no way they can fill both the Bay and Saks/SportChek boxes with retailers, and the locals would very much appreciate a Cineplex too as they would have to drive all the way to Square One or Yonge/Dundas just to see a movie otherwise. Cineplex Junxion worked out very well for Erin Mills Town Centre. I hope someone out there working for CF is reading this because I think it would be a great idea.

 

[matrix]

Hudson’s Bay lenders file motion to terminate Ruby Liu lease deal

Investment firm ReStore Capital asked court to appoint ‘super monitor’ to control the closed retailer, saying that it mismanaged the business wind-down

www.theglobeandmail.com

Unpaywalled link: https://archive.ph/c5DQZ

Uh oh! Even the lenders are getting upset now. But this time, it has more to do with what Hudson's Bay is doing post-closure money-wise than anything Liu is doing herself. They're still paying rent to the landlords on the empty leases to try and get the Ruby Liu deal to go through, spending $18 million on removing signage alone soon, and the creditors are just mad at HBC for spending all this money during the wind-down when they could be getting that themselves.