[pw20]

No. The Monitor and the court are taking great care to maintain competitive bidding options open throughout the process to return the most value to creditors in case some of the bids fall through. The court is going as far as ignoring its own imposed deadlines and giving Hudson's Bay and the Monitor new opportunities to go out and find buyers for their leases.



There is yet no information as to which leases Canadian Tire bid on but there's a chance that they could have bid on Queen Street. They have the deep pockets and strategic motive to nab that space. I mean, is nobody really going to bid on the crown jewel of HBC's lease holds?

Without knowing for sure, it would be an interesting exercise in retail SimCity to imagine what they could do if one of those Canadian Tire bids is Queen Street: Moving Canadian Tire from their Bay and Dundas location would give Cadillac Fairview an opportunity to redevelop the corner once again, this time with an office + residential tower which zoning now permits. This big box store at the corner of Bay and Dundas is begging for a tower.



One matter to resolve: TMU's Business School was built on top of Canadian Tire but there are other available options in the area. I heard there's an entire city block between Bay and Yonge, Richmond and Queen Street, now available for lease.

So let's say Canadian Tire moves their store to the lower level of Hudson's Bay with an entrance at street level facing Richmond Street. While I can't see Canadian Tire on Queen Street, Canadian Tire looks like it would be right at home on Richmond.



Across the street, there's an underground garage which would give a downtown Canadian Tire access to underground parking and a real Canadian Tire experience with a mechanic garage, tire sales, car wash, etc.



Now for the Queen and Yonge Street façades? A Hudson's Bay Company flagship — akin to London's Harrod's — on a part of the main level and the entire second floor with bridge access to the Eaton Centre. Give back floors 3 through 7 to Cadillac Fairview to convert to office space or potentially TMU's Ted Rogers School of Business Management.

Canadian Tire CEO Greg Hicks give me a call, I got this thing figured out

Not to get too off topic but dear god is the Ted Rogers School building the ugliest building built in Toronto in the last 20 years (especially given it's prominence in downtown)? Hats off to anyone who can find the loose rendering of the raptors arena which was meant to built on the site.

 

[nightstreak]

I do miss The Bay/Saks. I was shopping for my moms birthday, she likes high-end perfumes. I thought i will go to Saks or The Bay and pick something up, like i always do, and then i remembered.... I ended up going to Holt Renfrew. They had a horrible selection and the staff wasn't as good as the staff at Saks or Hudson Bay. When it comes to expensive perfumes, i like to sample them before dropping huge amounts of money. It's not something i would ever buy online. I'm reminded by the Joni Mitchell lyric. "Don't it always seem to go. That you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone?"

I think The Bay's beauty department is covered by Sephora and Shoppers Drugmart. It was already happening long before HBC spiralled into bankruptcy. I used to go The Bay to buy fragrances and other beauty gifts but Shoppers Drugmart just became really convenient since there's a Shoppers at practically every street corner these days and their prices are far more competitive.

 

[nightstreak]

Oh lord, perish THAT thought. Can you imagine how CT would run a store in a heritage building when it's already a disaster of sorts at Eaton Centre?

AoD

Canadian Tire's newest stores are quite nice. The Bay/Dundas location has clearly run out of space because stores must carry a high percentage of online SKUs combined with the fact that it's likely being run as an online shopping pickup depot for a dense population centre, that store is piling inventory up to the rafters. There's no saving that store, it needs to be replaced by a floor plan with double the capacity.

The lower level of the Hudson's Bay Eaton Centre space is something like 125% of both floors at Canadian Tire's Bay/Dundas. Give in another 20,000sq ft along the neglected Richmond St side and you're activating a previously dead retail frontage and you're bringing back the now owner of Hudson's Bay brand to operate a flagship heritage store on Queen Street, while also freeing up Bay and Dundas for an urban development that gets rid of that big box store. I'd take that trade any day of the week plus Canadian Tire would be a good use of that basement space.

 

[torontowest91]

I do miss The Bay/Saks. I was shopping for my moms birthday, she likes high-end perfumes. I thought i will go to Saks or The Bay and pick something up, like i always do, and then i remembered.... I ended up going to Holt Renfrew. They had a horrible selection and the staff wasn't as good as the staff at Saks or Hudson Bay. When it comes to expensive perfumes, i like to sample them before dropping huge amounts of money. It's not something i would ever buy online. I'm reminded by the Joni Mitchell lyric. "Don't it always seem to go. That you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone?"

Just go to the brand direct - I get my cologne from the LV store at Yorkdale or I have gotten one from Diptyque at Sherway

 

[matrix]

B.C. mall owner’s push to buy 25 Hudson’s Bay leases faces landlord opposition: docs

An agreement Hudson’s Bay signed to sell about two dozen leases to a B.C. entrepreneur has encountered a major barrier, new court filings show: landlords who own the properties are overwhelmingly opposed to her moving in.

www.ctvnews.ca

Landlords representing 23 out of 25 leases Liu want to buy are vehemently opposing her plans. They do not want her moving in.

The document says landlords representing 23 leases in a group of 25 Liu purchased won’t approve the plan and “would oppose any potential future forced assignment.”

And honestly, good for them. I hope the courts have a brain and listen because I still think Liu is way over her head.

 

[Northern Light]

And honestly, good for them. I hope the courts have a brain and listen because I still think Liu is way over her head.

There's lots I don't know about Ruby's plans........

But I can say she has a pretty robust team and is adding more.

There are some detailed plans for some sites already (not working drawings, but lots of conversations underway). So its not as 'out there' as you might think.

But I certainly still have questions.

 

[matrix]

There's lots I don't know about Ruby's plans........

But I can say she has a pretty robust team and is adding more.

There are some detailed plans for some sites already (not working drawings, but lots of conversations underway). So its not as 'out there' as you might think.

But I certainly still have questions.

That's nice she has a robust team of people hard at work, but if I were a landlord I'd be weary of having a brand-new store shack up on my property that you have no idea if people would enjoy or not. It's a big thing to oversee and I think they are worried of having to go through this again a few years down the line if another bankruptcy happens. As Target did up here, "biting off more than you can chew" can end you up in that position- and that was with a brand that we were very familiar with already. Not to say that was the same as this situation, but there are a few parallels you could draw that make me sweat a little at the idea.

I'd love for it to be a success, I don't want to seem like too much of a hater or pessimist, and what she's detailed her vision as in the press sounds a LOT more attractive than what The Bay was near its death- but it sounds like such a dangerous thing to go through with. You're right though, we have a lot of questions and there's a lot we don't know about her plans, so maybe there's a method to the madness. But at the end of the day, if I were a landlord I'd be waving red flags too. Could it be there's something the landlords know about the plans that we don't?

 

[Dan416]

Yeah I don't think the landlords want another Nordstrom, Target, Sears, Eatons, The Bay, etc. here.

 

[nightstreak]

B.C. mall owner’s push to buy 25 Hudson’s Bay leases faces landlord opposition: docs

An agreement Hudson’s Bay signed to sell about two dozen leases to a B.C. entrepreneur has encountered a major barrier, new court filings show: landlords who own the properties are overwhelmingly opposed to her moving in.

www.ctvnews.ca

Landlords representing 23 out of 25 leases Liu want to buy are vehemently opposing her plans. They do not want her moving in.



And honestly, good for them. I hope the courts have a brain and listen because I still think Liu is way over her head.

The duty of the court is to get max value for the creditors. Ruby Liu put down a deposit representing $100M in a final sale of those leases. That’s almost 10% of Hudson’s Bay’s debt.

The court is not going to make it easy for the landlords to get out of those leases that The Bay owns unless they want to buy them themselves for something approximating that value.

HBC’s most valuable assets are its leases, the court isn’t just going to rule that they can’t sell them and end up with nothing.

I said a few pages back that this may happen. Approving Canadian Tire’s paltry $30M purchase of the IP would kill the value of the much more valuable leases.

Not only is the sale of leases subject to court approval, the landlords need to agree to transfer those leases. They may not want to because The Bay has favourable terms, including grandfathered submarket rent, which is why the leases are worth anything at all. Oxford (Yorkdale) and Cadillac Fairview (Eaton Centre) could find tenants for their spaces and get out of low value contracts so they'll object. If Weihong Liu opens something other than "Hudson's Bay" and other than a department store and does not fill all the floors in the lease, then the landlords have cause to reject her bid to take over the leases.

I do think it's worth considering that like Canadian Tire's public announcements, she might be playing to the judge. Her bids for 28 leases would be far more likely to succeed as a business if she has the IP. Calling it "New Bay" clearly indicates that she wanted to capitalize on the brand, not just the locations.

Had the court tied the IP to lease acquisitions, landlords would have little recourse because it’s a Hudson’s Bay opening in the existing stores. Either Ruby Liu should be granted the IP if she’s buying 28 stores or Canadian Tire should be asked to pay the $100M value either for the IP or leases in equal value.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Canada’s Governor General calls for Hudson’s Bay artifacts to be returned to Indigenous communities

Her Excellency Mary Simon spoke to CTV News Chief Anchor and Senior Editor Omar Sachedina ahead of National Indigenous Peoples Day on Saturday

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[gabe]

I think The Bay's beauty department is covered by Sephora and Shoppers Drugmart. It was already happening long before HBC spiralled into bankruptcy. I used to go The Bay to buy fragrances and other beauty gifts but Shoppers Drugmart just became really convenient since there's a Shoppers at practically every street corner these days and their prices are far more competitive.

I checked Shoppers today, they don't carry the brands that The Bay/ Saks carried. Plus the young kid working the cosmetics area had zero knowledge of the brands i was looking for, or anything else, she didn't want to help at all. Not sure why she was even in that department. Shoppers is like the Tim Horton's of drug stores. I miss Hudson Bay/ Saks.

 

[RGB_11]

I checked Shoppers today, they don't carry the brands that The Bay/ Saks carried. Plus the young kid working the cosmetics area had zero knowledge of the brands i was looking for, or anything else, she didn't want to help at all. Not sure why she was even in that department. Shoppers is like the Tim Horton's of drug stores. I miss Hudson Bay/ Saks.

I'm not sure if Simons will help, but if they do, maybe check there. (coming soon to Yorkdale and Eaton centre, where Nordstrom used to be) https://www.simons.ca/en/search--search?query=perfume

 

[Bayer]

I'm not sure if Simons will help, but if they do, maybe check there. (coming soon to Yorkdale and Eaton centre, where Nordstrom used to be) https://www.simons.ca/en/search--search?query=perfume

I haven't been to a Simons store recently but they never used to carry perfumes, so that was surprising to learn.

I am particularly intrigued by Female Christ by 19-69: "The fragrances of this earthy, full-bodied, and woody scent evoke the memory of Female Christ, an artistic performance by Lene Adler Petersen and Bjørn Nørgaard at the Copenhagen Stock Exchange in 1969 celebrating sacred and erotic elements in response to capitalist decadence."

 

[matrix]

Ruby Liu Secures 3 Hudson’s Bay Stores to Launch Chain

Ruby Liu gets court approval to launch her retail chain with 3 former Hudson’s Bay locations, while facing challenges in expanding nationwide.

retail-insider.com

Ruby Liu was able to secure the three leases at the malls she owns, however, it's now up to 25 out of 25 (100%) landlords that have not approved the deal for the other locations.

Lawyers representing prominent landlords such as Cadillac Fairview, Oxford Properties, and Primaris voiced serious objections during Monday’s hearing.

“There have been, from Cadillac Fairview’s perspective, no productive discussions, no meaningful disclosure,” said David Bish, a lawyer with Torys LLP representing Cadillac Fairview. “The process has been very troubled.”

D.J. Miller, counsel for Oxford Properties, echoed those concerns: “There are many troubling aspects of the lack of information that’s taken place.”

This really isn't a good sign for her efforts. And sadly, what I was expecting as well with the lack of information being in play here. It sounds like she has plans, but nothing concrete enough for the landlords to agree to it. Which is weird, because this article says she's so serious about her vision that she wants to relocate Central Walk and her own living situation to Toronto. To that I would say good luck, but as said before in this thread...

The duty of the court is to get max value for the creditors. Ruby Liu put down a deposit representing $100M in a final sale of those leases. That’s almost 10% of Hudson’s Bay’s debt.

The court is not going to make it easy for the landlords to get out of those leases that The Bay owns unless they want to buy them themselves for something approximating that value.

HBC’s most valuable assets are its leases, the court isn’t just going to rule that they can’t sell them and end up with nothing.

Which makes this quite the pickle to be a part of for all sides it seems. Things are heating up. Liu isn't the only bidder here, but she certainly seems to be the one who bid for the most locations. Is the court even going to take the landlord's please into consideration?

 

[nightstreak]

Ruby Liu Secures 3 Hudson’s Bay Stores to Launch Chain

Ruby Liu gets court approval to launch her retail chain with 3 former Hudson’s Bay locations, while facing challenges in expanding nationwide.

retail-insider.com

Which makes this quite the pickle to be a part of for all sides it seems. Things are heating up. Liu isn't the only bidder here, but she certainly seems to be the one who bid for the most locations. Is the court even going to take the landlord's please into consideration?

I'm awaiting motion briefings on the Monitor's website but what can be said is that the CCAA court and the monitor aren't here to satisfy the landlords. The court's role is to get creditors paid and wind down the bankrupt company in an orderly fashion without vultures picking at the corpse. Landlords of course want their spaces back but if they didn't outbid Ruby Liu, then they should have. Denying a winning bid an opportunity to pay ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS to creditors because they say they don't like her bid is not going to satisfy the court. The burden is on landlords to disqualify the bid.

This is not an ordinary lease transfer. In CCAA proceedings, the court has the ability to force the lease assignment because the alternative is the lease is disclaimed and nobody gets anything for its value because the company that owned that valuable asset will no longer exist.

I'm not (yet) confident in Ruby Liu's ability to execute what she's proposing, specially if she hasn't shared a detailed proposal with the landlords, but recall that she won the bid, not just because she offered the most money but because Hudson's Bay and the court Monitor believed that her proposal was the most credible. She already met the court's prerequisites in some form.

She's also putting down — let me repeat that again — $100,000,000 of her own cash upfront, plus tens of millions on renovations and has shown that she can pay ongoing rent, the same as they would have gotten had The Bay survived. That should be enough to satisfy the court unless landlords can show that she's going to be bankrupt in short order and leave them hanging and back in CCAA proceedings. I don't think anyone believes that. She's running successful malls in Canada as we speak.