Richard White
Senior Member
Some malls like Markville actually have a Winners AND a Marshalls with Dufferin Mall also having both. Not quite sure why as they sell the same merchandise but whatever.
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Some malls like Markville actually have a Winners AND a Marshalls with Dufferin Mall also having both. Not quite sure why as they sell the same merchandise but whatever.
matrix
Active Member
Yeah, it's been happening more and more lately as well. Marshalls was introduced to the Canadian market so TJX had an excuse to have multiple of their locations in closer proximity without brand dilution. Vaughan Mills already had a Winners/HomeSense for ages and Marshalls snapped up the Nordstrom Rack lease there. At Yonge and Dundas, you can find 2 Winners across the street from each other (Tenor and Eaton Centre), and up the street not even 600 meters at College, Marshalls (Aura) and Winners (College Park). It seems very stupid but it works. It's the hunting business model.
RGB_11
Active Member
Because many many years ago, around the time when Winners and Marshall's were popping up very close to each other,
the idea was to block the Bay from launching several "Designer Depot" locations right near Winners stores.
They did not know at the time that the Bay's Designer Depot stores would fail.
They only saw a direct threat to their business.
The only Designer Depot I am aware of (with a very short life, before being sold to International clothiers) was the one in Scarborough @ Warden & Eglinton.
It was a red shelved store, but it still looked a lot like a Winners store.
Today,
Winners & the other two are simply trying their best to corner the market so nobody else will try to copy them and open up close by.
The last (and best) attempt may have been Nordstrom Rak. It's sad to see that store go. I really liked how they tried to compete with Winners.
It would be nice to see someone try to compete with Winners...they deserve the competition!!
matrix
Active Member
Designer Depot is so funny to me. They got bought out by Fairweather/International Clothiers because The Bay gave up on it, and it's not even off-price anymore. They got the weirdest locations, I swear no one is ever in there buying anything. They mostly sell that Canada Weathergear crap as expected from IC. Seriously, quality-wise you can't find anything worse up here.
Of course in recent times The Bay just shipped overstock to Winners instead of having their own off-price chain, such as their Hudson brand clothing. Which is very funny, but you need to keep in mind, off-price retailers are a "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" kinda thing. The supplier makes money as well off that, it's just Winners is the one in front of the customer selling that unwanted merchandise for a profit. And at the end of the day I think The Bay realized that and didn't want to waste time with the DD concept going against a juggernaut like TJX.
I do agree more competition would be nice though. But the off-price market is in a chokehold up here. At least the yanks have Ross...
nightstreak
Active Member
Interrupting the Winners conversation for a moment to point out that a hearing for the leases will take place on or before Tuesday. The deadline is June 17th. We may be about to hear which spaces Canadian Tire bid on and the fate of Yorkdale and Eaton Centre.
torontowest91
Active Member
Wasn’t marshals supposed to be more “higher end” vs winners.
Now I feel like they are both the same. They seem to ship higher end items to winners in affluent areas too.
Also, marshals shoe department is usually way better than winners (at least for men).
Now I feel like they are both the same. They seem to ship higher end items to winners in affluent areas too.
Also, marshals shoe department is usually way better than winners (at least for men).
Richard White
Senior Member
I believe it was but yes, it seems that way. When I go into Winners and Marshalls, I find virtually the same merchandise in both.
matrix
Active Member
The only difference between Winners and Marshalls is that at Marshalls there's no jewelry counter and they sell shoes with the box. Winners and Marshalls co-exist to prevent brand dilution if anything
nightstreak
Active Member
Some news in a motion filed yesterday: Ruby Liu is completing 3 lease transfers from Hudson's Bay to Central Walk. Unsurprisingly, these are in her own malls:
Woodgrove Centre in Nanaimo
Mayfair Shopping Centre in Victoria
Tsawwassen Mills in Tsawwassen
She paid $6M to get back the three leases in her malls. If that's the case, Eaton Centre, Square One and Yorkdale are probably worth significantly more which tells me that Cadillac Fairview and Oxford are going to get their leases back and we'll see a transformation of the Simpsons building into a true extension of the Eaton Centre and new tenants at Yorkdale and Square One.
Aside from those three, Ruby Liu put down a $9.4M 10% deposit on 25 store leases, said to be suburban malls across Ontario, BC and Alberta, though these are pending landlord approval. Her total buy is $100M for 28 leases
There are another 11 leases that have been bid on but Hudson's Bay's lawyers have yet to announce deals for. The court will rule on the 3 leases on June 23rd and the process is getting stretched out further than the original deadlines. The entire CCAA process is supposed to be wrapped up by July 31st but that was already an extension and could now be longer.
Sad to say, the Simpsons/Hudson's Bay Queen Street store is almost certainly going to be dark throughout the Holiday Season for the first time since 1894. .
nightstreak
Active Member
It's also a real shame that having the cash to pay $100M for 28 leases, Ruby Liu couldn't have had the foresight to outbid Canadian Tire's $30 million for the Hudson's Bay IP and maybe fewer stores which would have allowed her to keep The Bay running in its existing stores under new management. Now she has 28 nameless empty shells for a brand nobody will know and she'll have to start from scratch. I'm not sure this was a prudent business decision.
matrix
Active Member
Is there still no full list of the other leases' status? Waiting to see the fate of Oakville Place...
Good to know Oxford may be getting their leases back though. Kinda don't want Liu touching those higher-end locations.
Something tells me she may be too full of herself to realize how big of a mistake this is. Still not a fan of her wanting to rename the stores after herself. I can appreciate her efforts to an extent but I think this will be back in bankruptcy court in no time.
nightstreak
Active Member
No. The Monitor and the court are taking great care to maintain competitive bidding options open throughout the process to return the most value to creditors in case some of the bids fall through. The court is going as far as ignoring its own imposed deadlines and giving Hudson's Bay and the Monitor new opportunities to go out and find buyers for their leases.
There is yet no information as to which leases Canadian Tire bid on but there's a chance that they could have bid on Queen Street. They have the deep pockets and strategic motive to nab that space. I mean, is nobody really going to bid on the crown jewel of HBC's lease holds?
Without knowing for sure, it would be an interesting exercise in retail SimCity to imagine what they could do if one of those Canadian Tire bids is Queen Street: Moving Canadian Tire from their Bay and Dundas location would give Cadillac Fairview an opportunity to redevelop the corner once again, this time with an office + residential tower which zoning now permits. This big box store at the corner of Bay and Dundas is begging for a tower.
One matter to resolve: TMU's Business School was built on top of Canadian Tire but there are other available options in the area. I heard there's an entire city block between Bay and Yonge, Richmond and Queen Street, now available for lease.
So let's say Canadian Tire moves their store to the lower level of Hudson's Bay with an entrance at street level facing Richmond Street. While I can't see Canadian Tire on Queen Street, Canadian Tire looks like it would be right at home on Richmond.
Across the street, there's an underground garage which would give a downtown Canadian Tire access to underground parking and a real Canadian Tire experience with a mechanic garage, tire sales, car wash, etc.
Now for the Queen and Yonge Street façades? A Hudson's Bay Company flagship — akin to London's Harrod's — on a part of the main level and the entire second floor with bridge access to the Eaton Centre. Give back floors 3 through 7 to Cadillac Fairview to convert to office space or potentially TMU's Ted Rogers School of Business Management.
Canadian Tire CEO Greg Hicks give me a call, I got this thing figured out
TossYourJacket
Senior Member
Just to add, in the TMU Campus Master Plan, they do have the Ted Rogers School of Management listed as a potential future redevelopment (longer term IIRC but it is highlighted as something they expect to eventually change), so that would suggest they aren't opposed to changes to the current building at some point or another.No. The Monitor and the court are taking great care to maintain competitive bidding options open throughout the process to return the most value to creditors in case some of the bids fall through. The court is going as far as ignoring its own imposed deadlines and giving Hudson's Bay and the Monitor new opportunities to go out and find buyers for their leases.
There is yet no information as to which leases Canadian Tire bid on but there's a chance that they could have bid on Queen Street. They have the deep pockets and strategic motive to nab that space. I mean, is nobody really going to bid on the crown jewel of HBC's lease holds?
Without knowing for sure, it would be an interesting exercise in retail SimCity to imagine what they could do if one of those Canadian Tire bids is Queen Street: Moving Canadian Tire from their Bay and Dundas location would give Cadillac Fairview an opportunity to redevelop the corner once again, this time with an office + residential tower which zoning now permits. This big box store at the corner of Bay and Dundas is begging for a tower.
View attachment 659749
One matter to resolve: TMU's Business School was built on top of Canadian Tire but there are other available options in the area. I heard there's an entire city block between Bay and Yonge, Richmond and Queen Street, now available for lease.
So let's say Canadian Tire moves their store to the lower level of Hudson's Bay with an entrance at street level facing Richmond Street. While I can't see Canadian Tire on Queen Street, Canadian Tire looks like it would be right at home on Richmond.
View attachment 659747
Across the street, there's an underground garage which would give a downtown Canadian Tire access to underground parking and a real Canadian Tire experience with a mechanic garage, tire sales, car wash, etc.
View attachment 659748
Now for the Queen and Yonge Street façades? A Hudson's Bay Company flagship — akin to London's Harrod's — on a part of the main level and the entire second floor with bridge access to the Eaton Centre. Give back floors 3 through 7 to Cadillac Fairview to convert to office space or potentially TMU's Ted Rogers School of Business Management.
Canadian Tire CEO Greg Hicks give me a call, I got this thing figured out
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
No. The Monitor and the court are taking great care to maintain competitive bidding options open throughout the process to return the most value to creditors in case some of the bids fall through. The court is going as far as ignoring its own imposed deadlines and giving Hudson's Bay and the Monitor new opportunities to go out and find buyers for their leases.
There is yet no information as to which leases Canadian Tire bid on but there's a chance that they could have bid on Queen Street. They have the deep pockets and strategic motive to nab that space. I mean, is nobody really going to bid on the crown jewel of HBC's lease holds?
Without knowing for sure, it would be an interesting exercise in retail SimCity to imagine what they could do if one of those Canadian Tire bids is Queen Street: Moving Canadian Tire from their Bay and Dundas location would give Cadillac Fairview an opportunity to redevelop the corner once again, this time with an office + residential tower which zoning now permits. This big box store at the corner of Bay and Dundas is begging for a tower.
View attachment 659749
One matter to resolve: TMU's Business School was built on top of Canadian Tire but there are other available options in the area. I heard there's an entire city block between Bay and Yonge, Richmond and Queen Street, now available for lease.
So let's say Canadian Tire moves their store to the lower level of Hudson's Bay with an entrance at street level facing Richmond Street. While I can't see Canadian Tire on Queen Street, Canadian Tire looks like it would be right at home on Richmond.
View attachment 659747
Across the street, there's an underground garage which would give a downtown Canadian Tire access to underground parking and a real Canadian Tire experience with a mechanic garage, tire sales, car wash, etc.
View attachment 659748
Now for the Queen and Yonge Street façades? A Hudson's Bay Company flagship — akin to London's Harrod's — on a part of the main level and the entire second floor with bridge access to the Eaton Centre. Give back floors 3 through 7 to Cadillac Fairview to convert to office space or potentially TMU's Ted Rogers School of Business Management.
Canadian Tire CEO Greg Hicks give me a call, I got this thing figured out
Oh lord, perish THAT thought. Can you imagine how CT would run a store in a heritage building when it's already a disaster of sorts at Eaton Centre?
AoD
gabe
Senior Member
I do miss The Bay/Saks. I was shopping for my moms birthday, she likes high-end perfumes. I thought i will go to Saks or The Bay and pick something up, like i always do, and then i remembered.... I ended up going to Holt Renfrew. They had a horrible selection and the staff wasn't as good as the staff at Saks or Hudson Bay. When it comes to expensive perfumes, i like to sample them before dropping huge amounts of money. It's not something i would ever buy online. I'm reminded by the Joni Mitchell lyric. "Don't it always seem to go. That you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone?"