[jje1000]

I'm probably one of a few people who doesn't see Canadian Tire acquiring the Hudson's Bay IP as a good thing at all.

It reads more as Canadian Tire buying the skin of the company rather than saving it at all.

Everything else is still being liquidated (even the company archives and its original charter), and with it, its legacy.

 

[Towered]

I think Canadian Tire (store brand) moved away from an auto/hardware store that happened to sell other stuff years ago. They're similar to Walmart and (formerly) Sears except the balance of the size of the various departments is different, and CT Corp moved a lot of it's clothing and sporting goods off to other store brands they own.

My big problem with their corporate plan is they foist more and more products into the same footprint - particularly CT - making them cluttered and difficult to navigate. I spoke to a franchisee one time who said they have virtually no control over this and have to shoe-horn things as best as they can.

I actually see items like striped blankets fitting in okay with Mark's. They will probably switch production from England to China.

Just wait until CT starts selling groceries

 

[Northern Light]

Just wait until CT starts selling groceries

They tried that already....... it was gone before you saw it.

Outside of the chips/snacks etc on your way to the cash, don't expect perishables back anytime soon.

 

[nightstreak]

It reads more as Canadian Tire buying the skin of the company rather than saving it at all.

Everything else is still being liquidated (even the company archives and its original charter), and with it, its legacy.

Or saving the façade of a historic building and gutting its true lived history from its interior to prop up a glass tower. More relatable to the users of this forum.

That said, The Bay of today is not the Hudson’s Bay Company of 1670. I’m sad for what’s been lost but I welcome some of its identity persisting.

I think Canadian Tire (store brand) moved away from an auto/hardware store that happened to sell other stuff years ago. They're similar to Walmart and (formerly) Sears except the balance of the size of the various departments is different, and CT Corp moved a lot of it's clothing and sporting goods off to other store brands they own.

This is a marriage that makes absolutely no sense,

Canadian Tire has grown out of its auto/hardware roots into, like @lenaitch said, a Walmart-type chain but it has carried its legacy name around as limitation to its brand growth. I would not buy clothes at a Canadian Tire. I wouldn’t buy groceries or sit down at a Canadian Tire restaurant. It sounds like a hardware store and it’ll never be able to shake that off.

The Hudson’s Bay brand provides what the Canadian Tire corporation was missing. A brand that it could grow into with perfectly synched messaging as companies with a long “Canadian history”. The brands fit together like a puzzle because the modern iteration of Hudson’s Bay as a department store was born of the same era as Canadian Tire.

I think the acquisition has potential but I’m on the fence on whether the executive team at Canadian Tire can pull it off — or wants to.

 

[Northern Light]

My big problem with their corporate plan is they foist more and more products into the same footprint - particularly CT - making them cluttered and difficult to navigate.

As they replace stores they are actually enlarging them significantly. Stores averaged 100,000ft2 a decade and a bit ago.............the newest ones are literally double that.

I frankly think that's too big, particularly for a retailer that doesn't like to do multiple entrances as an old-school department store would have. It means if the thing you want is at the far end of the store, you still have to walk in the entrance and then another 3-5 minute walk to get to your section and then again back to the cash.

That's irksome.

I spoke to a franchisee one time who said they have virtually no control over this and have to shoe-horn things as best as they can.

The problem of having older stores that are smaller while having product lines that fill the new builds.

 

[junctionist]

HBC and Canadian Tire aren't aligned at all as brands. One is supposed to be an elegant store found in malls and upscale downtown locales that's focused on designer fashion. The other excels at selling more practical and/or banal items like motor oil, mops, and soil in barebones warehouse-style stores that smell like tires.

If Canadian Tire's plan is to sell HBC-striped scarfs in bins next to barbecue brushes or next to work sweaters at Mark's, then the HBC brand is basically dead.

 

[nightstreak]

HBC and Canadian Tire aren't aligned at all as brands. One is supposed to be an elegant store found in malls and upscale downtown locales that's focused on designer fashion. The other excels at selling more practical and/or banal items like motor oil, mops, and soil in a barebones warehouse-style stores that smell like tires.

If Canadian Tire's plan is to sell HBC-striped scarfs in bins next to barbecue brushes or next to work sweaters at Mark's, then the HBC brand is basically dead.

Which is why this acquisition makes sense. One complements the other without overlap while still sharing some of the same DNA. The parent company CTC owns Hudson's Bay and Canadian Tire, each serving their own purposes and demographics. You can't sell food where you buy automotive parts, which is why CT's short stint at grocery failed quickly and definitively.

Canadian Tire could refocus on being a hardware/automotive/garden centre store with potential cross/upsells from Hudsons Bay at checkout. Zellers could take on Walmart and Winners with grocery and affordable clothing and housewares and Hudson's Bay takes on fashion, beauty and outdoor — could possibly host Sport Chek in Hudson's Bay.

Canadian Tire isn't just going after the leases. Those are being bid on separately and there was no prerequisite to also buy the IP. If Canadian acquired the brand, they likely intend to use it. They're already in the middle of a reshuffling, consolidating stores, making room and now adding brand properties that will enable them to branch out into markets they tried and failed at as Canadian Tire.

 

[Richard White]

While it’s good to see Hudson’s Bay return to Canadian ownership, this story only has a good ending if Canadian Tire wins bids for leases like Queen Street and Yorkdale and reopens those stores as Hudson’s Bay which it didn’t sound like they wanted to do. My guess is that the “handful of leases” they’re pursuing are for downtowns where Canadian Tire couldn’t otherwise get into but will be able to with The Bay’s very generous grandfathered lease terms.

If CT was smart, they would open standalone Bay Stores like Sears did with Eaton's. While that did not survive, CT and HBC are two very different stores.

I can't see them selling Motor Oil next to Striped Blankets. It is not the same vibe.

My big problem with their corporate plan is they foist more and more products into the same footprint - particularly CT - making them cluttered and difficult to navigate. I spoke to a franchisee one time who said they have virtually no control over this and have to shoe-horn things as best as they can.

I used to know a Dealer with Canadian Tire and the biggest issue they mentioned was E-Commerce.

The one thing I always hated trying to order from Canadian Tire was that online inventory was store specific. If you ordered online, it was never from one central warehouse only a specific store. If the store you selected had no inventory of a certain product, you had to look at another location to order online.

Maybe @Northern Light can share some insight but with the various levels of control (Dealers, Associate Dealers, General and other store Management) it is hard to get anything done in a meaningful way.

The one thing I hate about Canadian Tire is how cluttered everything is. I can never find anything without wandering through a million aisles or looking into one of a thousand bunkers lining the aisles. It is almost like an upscale version of Honest Eds in terms of clutter!

If Canadian Tire's plan is to sell HBC-striped scarfs in bins next to barbecue brushes or next to work sweaters at Mark's, then the HBC brand is basically dead.

Did they not try something similar with Debbie Travis?

 

[Richard White]

They tried that already....... it was gone before you saw it.

Outside of the chips/snacks etc on your way to the cash, don't expect perishables back anytime soon.

It is interesting to note that at one point Hudson's Bay sold everything from Motor Oil to Clothes, to Alcohol!

It would not be uncharted territory for the brand and could in a way harken back to its roots.

 

[torontowest91]

Or saving the façade of a historic building and gutting its true lived history from its interior to prop up a glass tower. More relatable to the users of this forum.

That said, The Bay of today is not the Hudson’s Bay Company of 1670. I’m sad for what’s been lost but I welcome some of its identity persisting.




Canadian Tire has grown out of its auto/hardware roots into, like @lenaitch said, a Walmart-type chain but it has carried its legacy name around as limitation to its brand growth. I would not buy clothes at a Canadian Tire. I wouldn’t buy groceries or sit down at a Canadian Tire restaurant. It sounds like a hardware store and it’ll never be able to shake that off.

The Hudson’s Bay brand provides what the Canadian Tire corporation was missing. A brand that it could grow into with perfectly synched messaging as companies with a long “Canadian history”. The brands fit together like a puzzle because the modern iteration of Hudson’s Bay as a department store was born of the same era as Canadian Tire.

I think the acquisition has potential but I’m on the fence on whether the executive team at Canadian Tire can pull it off — or wants to.

Canadian tire has a restaurant - the hot dog carts outside...

 

[nightstreak]

If CT was smart, they would open standalone Bay Stores like Sears did with Eaton's. While that did not survive, CT and HBC are two very different stores.

I can't see them selling Motor Oil next to Striped Blankets. It is not the same vibe.

That's where I was going with my analysis. Canadian Tire acquires Hudson's Bay and Zellers properties along with Hudson North fashion brand, Gluckstein housewares, and others.

They acquire a handful of downtown leases like Toronto's Queen Street, Montreal's Sainte-Catherine, Calgary's Stephen Avenue and Vancouver's Granville and maybe some of the mall flagship locations like Yorkdale and reopen them as paired down Hudson's Bay selling fashion, beauty and housewares. Sell Hudson North and Sport Chek at The Bay.

Pick up some of the suburban Hudson's Bay leases for cheap, focusing on those near a Canadian Tire, convert those to Zellers, selling Walmart fare: grocery, affordable clothing and housewares. Sell Mark's apparel at Zellers.

Canadian Tire refocuses as a hardware, automotive and garden centre and pares down their overloaded stores.

All the properties benefit from a single Triangle Rewards loyalty program and some cross/upsell of each of the brands at the other stores.

 

[Richard White]

Canadian Tire refocuses as hardware, automotive and garden centre and pares down their overloaded stores

Just like it was up until the late 90s. I still remember going into Canadian Tire and only finding automotive and hardware items.

It may be interesting to note that a former CT store at Markham and Lawrence closed only to be replaced down the road by a new and larger CT store in Cedarbrae Mall. Apparently, that store was too small and could not be reconfigured.

The old store sold hardware supplies primarily with the automotive section there as well. When the new store opened up it sold everything from pool noodles to spark plugs.

 

[nightstreak]

Just like it was up until the late 90s. I still remember going into Canadian Tire and only finding automotive and hardware items.

It may be interesting to note that a former CT store at Markham and Lawrence closed only to be replaced down the road by a new and larger CT store in Cedarbrae Mall. Apparently, that store was too small and could not be reconfigured.

The old store sold hardware supplies primarily with the automotive section there as well. When the new store opened up it sold everything from pool noodles to spark plugs.

Canadian Tire is being held back by their unshakable automotive/hardware brand recognition — it’s in the name! — and their attempts at doing everything with that one store. Shuffle some of that inventory and new markets to Zellers and the Bay and they can explore more of each market in their appropriate stores.

When I needed something hardware related recently, I couldn’t get out of Canadian Tire fast enough. It’s claustrophobic with inventory piled 20 feet above your head in narrow aisles that are dark and impossible to navigate.

Hopefully the Bay/Zellers acquisition helps them focus on what each property does best.

 

[Amare]

That's where I was going with my analysis. Canadian Tire acquires Hudson's Bay and Zellers properties along with Hudson North fashion brand, Gluckstein housewares, and others.

They acquire a handful of downtown leases like Toronto's Queen Street, Montreal's Sainte-Catherine, Calgary's Stephen Avenue and Vancouver's Granville and maybe some of the mall flagship locations like Yorkdale and reopen them as paired down Hudson's Bay selling fashion, beauty and housewares. Sell Hudson North and Sport Chek at The Bay.

Pick up some of the suburban Hudson's Bay leases for cheap, focusing on those near a Canadian Tire, convert those to Zellers, selling Walmart fare: grocery, affordable clothing and housewares. Sell Mark's apparel at Zellers.

Canadian Tire refocuses as a hardware, automotive and garden centre and pares down their overloaded stores.

All the properties benefit from a single Triangle Rewards loyalty program and some cross/upsell of each of the brands at the other stores.

The thing is, Canadian Tire has 0% interest in operating a Hudson's Bay branded store period. No Bay, No Zellers, it's just the IP and brand and that's it.

Their intention is to integrate it into their existing store banners, which is why I said that I believe the move make absolutely no sense whatsoever. That's unless they are planning on doing a store within a store model, and even then I have big doubts about any success with that.

If they are thinking of starting another store banner focused on clothing/fashion/housewares, sure that's a discussion to be had. But under their current operations, this move is just another Helly Hansen styled mess in making. If they couldn't make Helly Hansen work (and frankly that's something that complemented the company a lot more under the Mark's banner), I highly doubt the acquisition of Hudson's Bay's IP will work for them.

 

[Richard White]

The thing is, Canadian Tire has 0% interest in operating a Hudson's Bay branded store period. No Bay, No Zellers, it's just the IP and brand and that's it.

I believe they are bidding on a handful of the leases.