[Amare]

I believe they are bidding on a handful of the leases.

Yes while that's true, it doesnt mean they are tied to keeping the stores branded as Hudson's Bay. From everything that's being indicated, they have no intention on keeping Bay stores opened under that brand if they acquired some of those leases.

 

[nightstreak]

The thing is, Canadian Tire has 0% interest in operating a Hudson's Bay branded store period. No Bay, No Zellers, it's just the IP and brand and that's it.

Their intention is to integrate it into their existing store banners, which is why I said that I believe the move make absolutely no sense whatsoever. That's unless they are planning on doing a store within a store model, and even then I have big doubts about any success with that.

Based on your statements that you don’t know what they’re going to do with the IP, I’m going to assume that you don’t know what they’re going to do with the IP.

None of us know unless we’re sitting in a Canadian Tire executive meeting.

 

[afransen]

They tried that already....... it was gone before you saw it.

Outside of the chips/snacks etc on your way to the cash, don't expect perishables back anytime soon.

You mean you don't want to buy lettuce and chicken from a store that smells like rubber?

 

[nightstreak]

You mean you don't want to buy lettuce and chicken from a store that smells like rubber?

Only if it looks like this

 

[officedweller]

I think the reason that people are finding the IP/branding acquisition so strange is because other than Mark's
(which is very practical basic casual clothing) Canadian Tire doesn't do "fashion", and all department stores have focused on fashion over the past 20 years.

I view it as a return to Hudson's Bay's roots - with a focus on the "outfitter" aspect of the historical business,
not the current fashion emphasis.

Hudson's Bay branding would work on:
- hunting, fishing, camping and other outdoor gear (through Canadian Tire)
- outdoor clothing (similar to Eddie Bauer or LL Bean) (through Mark's)
- linens, housewares and homegoods (i.e. Gluckstein) (through Canadian Tire)
- garden and patio furniture (i.e. Gluckstein) (through Canadian Tire)

Think of this logo on Mark's outdoorsy clothing, not a "fashion" logo.

LOGOS + REBRANDS | Bye, Bye Bay; Hello Hudson

Morgan’s was purchased in 1960 by the Hudson’s Bay Company … In 1964, the stores in Ontario were converted into the new name, the Bay. At that point, the previous Morgan’s l…

designkultur.wordpress.com

 

[Amare]

Based on your statements that you don’t know what they’re going to do with the IP, I’m going to assume that you don’t know what they’re going to do with the IP.

None of us know unless we’re sitting in a Canadian Tire executive meeting.

Give it a month or two, you'll see it unfold for itself that they have no desire to maintain Hudson's Bay as a traditional store as we know it today.

 

[nightstreak]

Give it a month or two, you'll see it unfold for itself that they have no desire to maintain Hudson's Bay as a traditional store as we know it today.

A month or two? Huh? You’re not being serious.

The strategic value of the HBC IP will be measured in years. Nobody expects them to run the existing stores. They purposefully didn’t buy the operations. I mean, who would?

The CTC press release and the CEO’s earlier statement were carefully worded to absolve CTC of the Monitor and the court’s insistence that they don’t take on the IP without any of the burden and responsibilities (and debt) of acquiring the operations.

Once approved, Canadian Tire can leverage the HBC branding to create pop ups or reconstitute the company in a reinvented store as they see fit. Given how they’re also bidding on leases, one can deduce from their earlier brand reorganization that they intend to make good use of their newly acquired brand properties.

 

[lenaitch]

I obviously have no clue what CTC's plans are with the parts of HBC they are bidding on. I really don't see any synergy between any of their brands and the HBC brands. Once HBC unloaded its Inland Division (small general goods/grocery stores in small and remote communities) it became an urban retailer. Canadian Tire is in markets that HBC never was. It certainly has large footprint stores, but it also a 3000sf store in Nipigon and everything in between.

I would image trying to turn some HBC mall locations into grocery stores would be difficult and costly. Changes to loading/warehousing facilities along with power requirements for fridges and freezers, bakery and butcher facilities would be expensive. Besides, once you become a food retailer, that traffic doesn't take advantage of the rest of the mall. You're taking your groceries (and whatever else from in-store) and going home. We have a rare mall-situated Walmart and you never see a load of groceries wandering the mall.

Canadian Tire did try brand-in-brand but I don't know if they still do. Some CT stores had a Mark's embedded inside but it was a PITA since there were separate check-outs. Maybe they got it sorted out now with Party City embedded in some CT stores.

I used to know a Dealer with Canadian Tire and the biggest issue they mentioned was E-Commerce.

The one thing I always hated trying to order from Canadian Tire was that online inventory was store specific. If you ordered online, it was never from one central warehouse only a specific store. If the store you selected had no inventory of a certain product, you had to look at another location to order online.

They're not alone. I ordered a fairly not-common circuit breaker from HD and got an message that it was in - at a store an hour away. Having said that, I think there is a difference with 'not sold in store' inventory (which seems to increasing). I have order 'online only' items and had them delivered to my local store.

At least it's better than Walmart, who seem to accept my order then cancel it the next day. CT did that a few times during COVID but I suspect their e-commerce was a tad overwhelmed.

 

[nightstreak]

I would image trying to turn some HBC mall locations into grocery stores would be difficult and costly. Changes to loading/warehousing facilities along with power requirements for fridges and freezers, bakery and butcher facilities would be expensive.

Keep in mind that some of Hudson's Bay's suburban stores were Zellers which did sell groceries in their "Neighbourhood Market”. They also had restaurants. Those could be reconverted back if Canadian Tire wanted to get serious about food. IMO, they must or they'll keep trailing the Westons. Grocery is still one thing people want to shop for in person — though Instacart, UberEats and other online grocery delivery services are cutting into that.

Canadian Tire Corp now has a brand property that they can leverage to get into grocery when they're ready to have another go at it.

Besides, once you become a food retailer, that traffic doesn't take advantage of the rest of the mall. You're taking your groceries (and whatever else from in-store) and going home. We have a rare mall-situated Walmart and you never see a load of groceries wandering the mall.

Where Walmarts and even No Frills anchor malls, people do their store browsing first, pick up what they need, then do their grocery shopping, not the other way around. Grocers are increasingly going to anchor malls with the demise of the department store.

 

[Amare]

A month or two? Huh? You’re not being serious.

The strategic value of the HBC IP will be measured in years. Nobody expects them to run the existing stores. They purposefully didn’t buy the operations. I mean, who would?

The CTC press release and the CEO’s earlier statement were carefully worded to absolve CTC of the Monitor and the court’s insistence that they don’t take on the IP without any of the burden and responsibilities (and debt) of acquiring the operations.

Once approved, Canadian Tire can leverage the HBC branding to create pop ups or reconstitute the company in a reinvented store as they see fit. Given how they’re also bidding on leases, one can deduce from their earlier brand reorganization that they intend to make good use of their newly acquired brand properties.

I'm talking a month or two to see what happens with Canadian Tire's potential (though not really existent) intention to operate brick and mortar Bay stores *if* they happen to be successful acquiring some of Hudson's Bays leases.

Weihong Liu was essentially the only person/entity who had an interest in retaining The Bay in a way in which you were describing. Canadian Tire is solely interested in the IP, if they were interested in the other parts of the business than you would've already heard that they were interested in retaining some of the stores.

 

[lenaitch]

No clue who's image this is.

 

[lenaitch]

Keep in mind that some of Hudson's Bay's suburban stores were Zellers which did sell groceries in their "Neighbourhood Market”. They also had restaurants. Those could be reconverted back if Canadian Tire wanted to get serious about food. IMO, they must or they'll keep trailing the Westons. Grocery is still one thing people want to shop for in person — though Instacart, UberEats and other online grocery delivery services are cutting into that.

I wasn't aware of that. Any Bay I recall wasn't something else first except a few Simpson's if you go back far enough.

I'm not convinced CT wants to get into the grocery business but I guess we'll see.

Where Walmarts and even No Frills anchor malls, people do their store browsing first, pick up what they need, then do their grocery shopping, not the other way around. Grocers are increasingly going to anchor malls with the demise of the department store.

I wasn't aware that was a relatively common thing. I was under the impression from admittedly not widespread of scientific observation that our mall-anchored Walmart was comparatively uncommon.

 

[Northern Light]

Canadian Tire Corp now has a brand property that they can leverage to get into grocery when they're ready to have another go at it.

While they could surprise me........ I neither think they want into grocery, nor do I think they should.

Its a very low margin business.

Perishables are a huge issue.

It doesn't fit with anything they do now.

Where Walmarts and even No Frills anchor malls, people do their store browsing first, pick up what they need, then do their grocery shopping, not the other way around. Grocers are increasingly going to anchor malls with the demise of the department store.

Grocery doesn't anchor all that many malls (many plazas, yes); spin-off traffic isn't great from it, generally, and tends to be focused on like-traffic by which I mean errands Bank/Drug Store/ Pet Store, etc.

 

[syn]

That's where I was going with my analysis. Canadian Tire acquires Hudson's Bay and Zellers properties along with Hudson North fashion brand, Gluckstein housewares, and others.

They acquire a handful of downtown leases like Toronto's Queen Street, Montreal's Sainte-Catherine, Calgary's Stephen Avenue and Vancouver's Granville and maybe some of the mall flagship locations like Yorkdale and reopen them as paired down Hudson's Bay selling fashion, beauty and housewares. Sell Hudson North and Sport Chek at The Bay.

Pick up some of the suburban Hudson's Bay leases for cheap, focusing on those near a Canadian Tire, convert those to Zellers, selling Walmart fare: grocery, affordable clothing and housewares. Sell Mark's apparel at Zellers.

Canadian Tire refocuses as a hardware, automotive and garden centre and pares down their overloaded stores.

All the properties benefit from a single Triangle Rewards loyalty program and some cross/upsell of each of the brands at the other stores.

This makes a lot of sense, I'm just not sure Canadian Tire (as others have mentioned) has any interest in running Hudson's Bay stores. It seems necessary, as a lot of Hudson's Bay brands don't seem like a fit for Canadian Tire.

If it were up to me, I'd open up Hudson's Bay in a few major markets (the ones you outlined are good ones), or even one, single destination store, kind of like Harrod's. Not sure Canadian Tire has the expertise to pull that off.

 

[PL1]

No clue who's image this is.

View attachment 652133

There was a woman sitting on the bus yesterday holding a Bay mug (with stripes) and a Canadian Tire shopping bag. I thought of capturing a clandestine photo to post here, but decided that it would be wrong.