[Admiral Beez]

Yes, but those two are somewhat specialized. Walmart is the comparator here.

Harts Stores might suffice. They have fashion, electronics, bedding, etc. We’d need to press for national locations, but they are expanding.

The Hart Department Store Chain Is Opening in Fredericton's Brookside Mall - Huddle.Today

The new store carrying everything from furniture to clothing will open in October and occupy the former Zellers space.

huddle.today

 

[just east of the creek]

So the Bay. I have connections and experiences with the Bay and its offshoot, Northern Stores, reaching back to my childhood. I’ve

been lucky enough to canoe and camp along some past trading routes and trading posts.

And the Bay has a difficult history, celebrated for many amazing things from my childhood perspective, but less so as I grew older and spent more time interacting with people less exposed to the popular histories of the north and west, but growing up in those areas and fielding different, less positive experiences.

And yet, this entity, like CP and CN and perhaps Sir John A. is a part of our collective history, and it would be a loss to see that history eradicated, especially
at the hands of Alvarez and Marsal.

Some industry experts have suggested a re-birth as a ‘Roots’ sized venture, building on name etc. A ‘Simons’ rebirth seems unlikely. I am sure their is a market for the name. There is no question that the future of the name is dire at present.

I was walking back to my hotel tonight after dinner with clients, in the snow, in Montreal, and my route took me along St Catherine’s. So a few photos - The Bay store, the Eatons building (now an indoor mall), one of my favourite churches, and Simons.

 

[Bayer]

So the Bay. I have connections and experiences with the Bay and its offshoot, Northern Stores, reaching back to my childhood. I’ve been lucky enough to canoe and camp along some past trading routes and trading posts.

And the Bay has a difficult history, celebrated for many amazing things from my childhood perspective, but less so as I grew older and spent more time interacting with people less exposed to the popular histories of the north and west, but growing up in those areas and fielding different, less positive experiences.

And yet, this entity, like CP and CN and perhaps Sir John A. is a part of our collective history, and it would be a loss to see that history eradicated, especially
at the hands of Alvarez and Marsal.

Some industry experts have suggested a re-birth as a ‘Roots’ sized venture, building on name etc. A ‘Simons’ rebirth seems unlikely. I am sure their is a market for the name. There is no question that the future of the name is dire at present.

I was walking back to my hotel tonight after dinner with clients, in the snow, in Montreal, and my route took me along St Catherine’s. So a few photos - The Bay store, the Eatons building (now an indoor mall), one of my favourite churches, and Simons.

Nice pics. My memories of the building where Simons is now go back to when it was a Simpsons store. At the very beginning of my career, I wasn't making a lot of money and my mother took me there to buy me a winter coat. The salesperson asked what I was doing for a living, and when I said "translator", he must have imagined an interpreter accompanying heads of state or whatever, and he immediately suggested a classy black Armani overcoat. I didn't say no

 

[Ardilla]

Mrs and I visited the Queen Yonge store today. There were lots of people but almost no one was carrying any purchases. And the prices even after the discounts were still too high. As a young homeowner and dad in the early 2000s the Bay was where I’d go for fair prices and quality. What we want are Homesense prices with a huge selection.

Thanks for sharing.

I, for one, will terribly miss the Bay locations and all of their options, including buying gifts with gift cards people can return themselves if it's not suitable. Many of my clothing items are from there, including Pajar winter boots the saleswoman called around to find where they had my size one Boxing Day (for 50% off.) Same with my duvet purchased on a yearly white sale for 40 or 50% off. I love all the different things I could purchase there in one store - pantyhose, cushions for the sofa, tea towels for the kitchen, Levi jeans for my Dad for xmas. I liked that they used to have food there also, so you could stop for a quick quiche at the cafe. I used to get my hair cut at the salon in the Bay and eyeglasses from their optical, way back when. As a Lancome promotion, I got an amazing free facial at the Bay downtown Toronto about 2 years ago. I know things are going to change a lot and I feel sad. I hope the few stores, at least, can survive long term.

 

[Northern Light]

Oh yeah, why didn't I think of that? It's the most obvious, you're right. Is Simons liquid enough to acquire The Bay? Then again, neither Sears nor Eatons exists anymore so maybe Simons isn't looking to repeat the mistake.

Simons has no interest in HBC as an operating business.

It may look over a couple of their leaseholds........but its got 2 major stores under construction and one not yet announced that's coming soon'ish.....they're capital is fairly fully allocated.

 

[Northern Light]

Sidenote - I wonder if Holt's will move back to Sherway now that there's a large empty spot for them. Last I heard the square one sales were pretty bad. @Northern Light you may know more here.

I might. LOL

 

[nightstreak]

I read the court Motion Record from Friday in its entirety (fun packed weekend!) and it looks like The Bay are making some positive progress on deals with the stakeholders that can keep them alive in those 6 stores and that if the deals are made soon enough, more stores will be taken off the liquidation.

I don't think there's any appetite from mall landlords to have any more empty large spaces. The Eaton Centre was able to fill Nordstrom's space but it'll have been sitting empty/under construction for years by the time Simons, Eataly, and Nike open. And that's Eaton Centre. I can't imagine they'll fill those spaces in 80 locations. Some malls will probably close before that happens. I also read that Cadillac Fairview loaned HBC $200 million in 2023.

I'm getting the impression reading the motion that the Bay was speaking to them. Lend us a hand or we'll jump! Keep us alive so we don't leave all those spaces empty. Their ongoing operational costs are what's killing them and if landlords can defer rent and/or invest a stake into the company, they'll be around long enough to keep filling those spaces and paying rent.

What I don't see coming up much is that this isn't a "Bay" brand issue. Saks is also failing and serves a completely different demographic. This is a management issue. The Bay needs to change hands or be run completely differently, otherwise they'll be right back here soon enough.

 

[Northern Light]

I read the court Motion Record from Friday in its entirety (fun packed weekend!) and it looks like The Bay are making some positive progress on deals with the stakeholders that can keep them alive in those 6 stores and that if the deals are made soon enough, more stores will be taken off the liquidation.

Errr........ there are discussions...........but without a buyer........the stores are barely on life support.

I can't imagine they'll fill those spaces in 80 locations. Some malls will probably close before that happens

Several of the properties already have public redevelopment plans, and many more are coming.........though the current market will slow that down a bit.

The major properties, the A-List sites, will not have difficulty finding higher performing uses for the space (ie. Yorkdale or STC)

. I also read that Cadillac Fairview loaned HBC $200 million in 2023.

Correct. In my opinion, CF has been taken the cleaners by HBC again.....

I'm getting the impression reading the motion that the Bay was speaking to them. Lend us a hand or we'll jump! Keep us alive so we don't leave all those spaces empty. Their ongoing operational costs are what's killing them and if landlords can defer rent and/or invest a stake into the company, they'll be around long enough to keep filling those spaces and paying rent.

They already have sweetheart deals on rent. Their core issue is that the current owners have bled the chain dry, selling off its assets from under it............and not reinvesting that money in the future. Between that, and crappy relationships with landlords and vendors alike.......

What I don't see coming up much is that this isn't a "Bay" brand issue. Saks is also failing and serves a completely different demographic. This is a management and ownership issue. The Bay needs to change hands or be run completely differently, otherwise they'll be right back here soon enough.

I believe at least one bid is being prepared.............but the one I'm aware of is from a buyer who does not have a track record that would inspire confidence here.

There remains some outside hope that a better bid is in the offing.............but.....its very, very late.....

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

I can see them surviving through this long enough to sell to a Canadian company like Loblaws that sees value in the “Canadian heritage” brand. The HBC Stripes business alone could be viable.

That would be an interesting pivot though it disgusts me a bit that it would be another case of corporate agglomeration. Frankly, I never saw the appeal of Joe Fresh in the Loblaws chain of companies. The Bay would be an interesting way to bring in a department store offering next-door to Loblaws locations, especially in some of the more higher-end developments that Choice REIT are developing. The Bay would need to pivot to more urban-style stores like IKEA in that case, but that would probably be for the best and allow for a path towards national expansion again.

 

[matrix]

Bowering’s, the historic St. John’s department store, pivoted to a mall-based home furnishings and decor retailer. Though in the end, Bowering’s didn’t survive (I believe it was poor management), I could see a space for the HBC brand to live on as a mid-tier Canadiana store, selling the point blankets, as well as home decor, souvenirs, and a limited clothing line. With stores around 10000-20000 square feet.

Bowring's name at least lives on through a single Warehouse store on Orfus Road's outlet strip around the corner from Yorkdale. Would we see the same fate for Hudson's Bay?

 

[officedweller]

The Westons sold the Selfridges Group in 2021, so maybe they aren't interested in department stores anymore (other than Holt Renfrew).

I wonder if STC and Square One has anything to do with the Joint Venture

Maybe Oxford is giving them a deal on rent?
Square One is partly owned by Oxford, too, so maybe Oxford and AIMCo want to redevelop the Hudson's Bay store
at Square One because it's front and centre facing the new Square One District redevelopment?

 

[Northern Light]

Maybe Oxford is giving them a deal on rent?

HBC has a pretty sweet deal on rent at the majority of its locations.

Square One is partly owned by Oxford, too, so maybe Oxford and AIMCo want to redevelop the Hudson's Bay store

I'm not aware of a specific plan there...........but Oxford certainly has its eyes on a couple of HBC stores for repurposing either for development or just as mall space for market-rent paying tenants.

 

[Towered]

I'm more interested in how this will affect the BUNKER at Yonge and Bloor...

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I'm more interested in how this will affect the BUNKER at Yonge and Bloor...

Don't raise your hopes, considering what we have seen of an earlier plan.

Hudson's Bay Centre Renovations | UrbanToronto

Hudson's Bay Centre Renovations, Toronto by 1, Adamson Associates Architects

urbantoronto.ca

AoD

 

[oresama]

Simons has no interest in HBC as an operating business.

It may look over a couple of their leaseholds........but its got 2 major stores under construction and one not yet announced that's coming soon'ish.....they're capital is fairly fully allocated.

Always looking forward to some Simons updates - they give me hope for the survival of the department store in Canada. Pray tell it’s a GTA store?