ShonTron
Moderator
Lime Ridge Mall in Hamilton also had separate fashion and home stores.
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Richard White
Senior Member
I thought I would share these.
My Grandmother was gifted this in the 1970s from her former coworker. The images were taken in 2010 and she has since disposed of the bottle.
Apologies for the poor quality image, they were taken on an iPhone 3GS
My Grandmother was gifted this in the 1970s from her former coworker. The images were taken in 2010 and she has since disposed of the bottle.
Apologies for the poor quality image, they were taken on an iPhone 3GS
just east of the creek
Senior Member
The Bay has value, or its history (properly expressed), the logo and certain of the products. But the Bay is not the only department store chain to faler in recent years (regardless of its treatment by Baker). Macy's is currently going through a painful re-organization (if you can call it that) and there have been others - Lord and Taylor being a good example in the USA, John Lewis in the UK, and their are others.
I think management is the key, and perhaps that is why Simons thrives. Ownership by hedge funds is not a precursor to long term growth in many many instances.
Northern Light
Superstar
Lord and Taylor was another Richard Baker victim.
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JC Penny fell apart.
Macy's isn't healthy, though really that does back as far as the late 80s and has everything to do with repeated buy-outs and mergers, many highly leveraged.....
And the unending desire to squeeze costs. When Macys was merged into Federated and then Federated took on May stores as well, they folded multiple regional banners into the Macys nameplate.
This was MBA logic for fewer head offices, and easier national branding.
The problem is that it put Macy's in places it had never been and no established brand in..........while killing off brands to which people were loyal.
Bouncing HQ staffs including buyers that were regional and knew their consumer, vs a single national team that struggled with different customers who want different things at different price points......was a terrible mistake.
Arguably, The Bay' went through part of this much earlier, not only killing off local names, but trying to save money by making Simpson's more like 'The Bay'....which was a down market move that eventually killed Simpsons.
In may ways 'Hudson's Bay Company's' upscale move was a revival of Simpson's.
But again, with the mistake that all shoppers everywhere are the same.
pw20
Senior Member
This is a foreshadowing of what I think will happen with Macy's. They can spin off Bloomingdales (and other higher end assets like Blue Mercury) but the mainline concept of Macy's is DOA.
Sidenote - I wonder if Holt's will move back to Sherway now that there's a large empty spot for them. Last I heard the square one sales were pretty bad. @Northern Light you may know more here.
Sidenote - I wonder if Holt's will move back to Sherway now that there's a large empty spot for them. Last I heard the square one sales were pretty bad. @Northern Light you may know more here.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Mrs and I visited the Queen Yonge store today. There were lots of people but almost no one was carrying any purchases. And the prices even after the discounts were still too high. As a young homeowner and dad in the early 2000s the Bay was where I’d go for fair prices and quality. What we want are Homesense prices with a huge selection.
ShonTron
Moderator
Bowering’s, the historic St. John’s department store, pivoted to a mall-based home furnishings and decor retailer. Though in the end, Bowering’s didn’t survive (I believe it was poor management), I could see a space for the HBC brand to live on as a mid-tier Canadiana store, selling the point blankets, as well as home decor, souvenirs, and a limited clothing line. With stores around 10000-20000 square feet.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Alcohol and or sugar to make it from the Caribbean represents Canada’s part in Britain’s global slave trade.
Richard White
Senior Member
Seriously?
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
What we need is a Canadian version of Target - low (but not necessarily the lowest) prices and offerings that are curated to reflect Canadian tastes.
AoD
AoD
Northern Light
Superstar
I do think a Zellers revival, which before it was jettisoned by Richard Baker was nearly a Target clone...........just smaller stores, and slightly higher prices.....is viable.
But, not in the corner of a Bay store basement.
Just like HBC's core brand, revival demands that you understand what made it work (Zellers wasn't super profitable, but did good gross volume and generally made some money, most years)........
Then you need competent management, design and execution., along with the right real estate.
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The sucking sound made by the leeches in Private Equity draining otherwise viable businesses of all their resource and assets to one side......
Most business failures are, I would argue, the product of MBAs......
By which I mean, not that an MBA unto itself is bad education, but rather that people get tied up in the quarterly numbers instead of what drives most businesses, which is the feeling they evoke in people who patronize them.
Put another way, think like a customer, and then put the MBA hat on only for the detailed execution, not the vision.
Example:
Zellers: Traditionally, Zellers, like many 'five and dime' department stores featured lunch counters/diners.
These diners rarely turned much of a profit on a narrow operational basis...........and weren't intended to........like the IKEA cafeteria or the Costco hotdog, there was an understanding of cheap, cravable food as a sort of loss leader.
It wasn't really meant to lose money........but it was intended not to make very much.
The reason was straight forward.
1) It drove traffic. You're in the store, you may now buy something while you're there, even if it costs a bit more than elsewhere, because its convenient.
2) It drove brand recognition.......lots of men and women, stopping for mid-day lunch or breakfast on-the-go. Even if they didn't shop on a daily basis, they knew the store, where it was, its hours, and some of what it offered.
3) It drove positive feelings about the brand....... you or your kid liked the hot dog or the hamburger or the sunnyside up egg. Its a warm memory, and its driven by eating food you liked, and thinking it was a good value too!
When you see it that way.....the food offer doesn't really need to make a profit, because it helps create the profit in other departments. Its essentially a form of marketing.
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'The Bay' used to do with its sit down restaurants in even the smaller stores; but also with year-round toy sections that kept bored kids (especially boys) busy while mom or dad shopped elsewhere in the store.
Bulk Candy sections (generally full serve), in the pre Bulk Barn days were very much in the same vein. Kids (and some adults) enamoured with chocolate or jujubes or whatever.....were more cooperative with a Saturday errand of buying new pants.
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As the brands were managed by people increasingly in possession of MBAs and told every offering must justify its existence..........
Things like the above get cut. Its a 20m a year store, the restaurant actually loses $120,000 a year............why keep it? (see above)........ nix the bulk candy, we don't make money on that............uhh...
Good retailers get this stuff. Costco gets it. Trader Joe's gets it. Until not so long ago Nordstrom got it, as did Neiman Marcus.
But bought by equity holders that seek to keep a lid on costs and replicate formulas without thought.....the thing that made them successful is lost.
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gabe
Senior Member
Growing up our family had a lot of meals at those Zellers diners and The Bay restaurants. Wasn't it The Bay restaurants were on the second floor and had windows over looking the mall? Could have been Sears or Eaton's. My parents would cut the coupons out of the newspaper for Big Z burgers and Club Z sandwich deals. Then we would go shopping after dinner. It was handy, you could get a good meal and not have to leave the store.
Northern Light
Superstar
In two-storey malls this was common, but not universal. In smaller malls, the Bay often used 'The Hearth' brand for its cafeteria program, and these were often windowless spaces in the store interior, done in dark fake wood panels........ it was a 70s/early 80s thing.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
If you want Canadian owned and valued priced, there’s Giant Tiger for clothing and of course Crappy Tire (sales only) for everything else. For made in Canada business attire I go to Tom’s Place in Kensington Market.
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