[nfitz]

MTO doesn’t really have any plans for new 400-series highways other than the 413 and 425 at this point, unless they want to start designating other corridors as such.

We got some of our major 400 series highways from such designations originally of existing corridors. 416, 417, 427, etc.. Not all were 400, 401, 407, 412, 413, 418, 425 like greenfields.

The two piece of new 7 are 100% 400-series standard highwy, unlike the Hanlon (6/7), Conestoga (7/8/85).

Though perhaps the next opening of a new extension of 400-series highway (other than the last bit of 401 to the new Windsor bridge) will be 404 from the 401, down the DVP - even if it doesn't meet 400-series standards.

 

[Jonathan's Junction]

I could see a freeway from Cambridge to Brantford/Hamilton being called 424 (if they choose a more western alignment)

 

[Dreambig1]

I could see a freeway from Cambridge to Brantford/Hamilton being called 424 (if they choose a more western alignment)

I am glad you mentioned this, as this corridor was what I was thinking could possibly be next after the 425 and 413 are completed, although I was hoping for this to be a 408 unless the MTO renamed a future extended stretch to Stratford and the current Hwy 8 through Kitchener to the 401 in Cambridge as the 408, and this new one the 424

 

[lenaitch]

An interesting numbering choice. I don't recall them breaking so far out of sequence before, without a good reason (427 being after 27, 417 being after 17, 416 being after 16). Well, I guess 418 ... could have been 414 ...

I think the first one to not reflect the highway it was replacing/upgrading was 409.

 

[nfitz]

I think the first one to not reflect the highway it was replacing/upgrading was 409.

I remember that one being built in the 1970s! It felt disorientating driving from the east to the airport without going past the Carling O'Keefe brewery!

Looking up date at Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/400-series_highways#Existing_network, 409 was 1978! Later than I remembered, but that's the opening date - I don't know when it was designated; but the planing seems to only date from the 1960s.

Offhand, I think the first was Highway 400 in 1952 (or the 1937 QEW, but let's ignore that). There wasn't a highway 1 either; 401 (1950s) was built on the Highway 2 corridor. Which means 402 (1952) wasn't on the Highway 2 corridor - it was a combination of the Highway 7 and then Highway 22 corridor.

403 (1963) was also on the Highway 2 corridor from Hamilton to London.405 (1963) was a Greenfield. 406 (1965 - and not even 400-series standards last time I drove it, which I admit was a while) was a greenfield.

It looks like the first one to reflect an existing number was 417 or 427 which both first opened in 1971. Until that time it was a sequential list from 400 to 406, except 404, for which they announced the desigation for in 1959, even though it didn't first open until 1977 (to Steeles).

(actually the piece of 404, from 401, to Sheppard opened in 1966, but it was then the DVP and only became the 404 when in 1977 after it was uploaded).

 

[lenaitch]

I remember that one being built in the 1970s! It felt disorientating driving from the east to the airport without going past the Carling O'Keefe brewery!

Looking up date at Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/400-series_highways#Existing_network, 409 was 1978! Later than I remembered, but that's the opening date - I don't know when it was designated; but the planing seems to only date from the 1960s.

Offhand, I think the first was Highway 400 in 1952 (or the 1937 QEW, but let's ignore that). There wasn't a highway 1 either; 401 (1950s) was built on the Highway 2 corridor. Which means 402 (1952) wasn't on the Highway 2 corridor - it was a combination of the Highway 7 and then Highway 22 corridor.

403 (1963) was also on the Highway 2 corridor from Hamilton to London.405 (1963) was a Greenfield. 406 (1965 - and not even 400-series standards last time I drove it, which I admit was a while) was a greenfield.

It looks like the first one to reflect an existing number was 417 or 427 which both first opened in 1971. Until that time it was a sequential list from 400 to 406, except 404, for which they announced the desigation for in 1959, even though it didn't first open until 1977 (to Steeles).

(actually the piece of 404, from 401, to Sheppard opened in 1966, but it was then the DVP and only became the 404 when in 1977 after it was uploaded).

My point was Hwy 409 didn't replace/pave over/widen an existing Hwy 9. I forgot about 404, which kinda-sorta replaced Woodbine Ave.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I am glad you mentioned this, as this corridor was what I was thinking could possibly be next after the 425 and 413 are completed, although I was hoping for this to be a 408 unless the MTO renamed a future extended stretch to Stratford and the current Hwy 8 through Kitchener to the 401 in Cambridge as the 408, and this new one the 424

This is one I actually forgot about - and yes, I suspect this will be the next corridor to happen.

MTO has been wanting to do a study on it for years, but it doesn't have a ton of political support, at least yet.

Waterloo Region did a study on a southern and eastern bypass of Cambridge, and actually built the southern part, but the eastern part is on hold as MTO has basically told them that they want to build it instead as a provincial facility.

It does make an appearance in the 2051 Transportation Master Plan for the GGH - Generally running from the 403 to 401 along the east side of Brantford and Cambridge:

Another one thinking about it that is percolating in MTO planners brains is a corridor from Fort Erie to Welland - this one is much lower priority though from my understanding and isn't necessarily going to be a 400-series road. if it does end up as such, it would basically loop the 406 around to the QEW north of Fort Erie. I haven't seen this one appear in recent documents though so I don't know how much support it still has - I admit it doesn't seem that urgent:

If you ask me the province SHOULD be looking at making Highway 6 a 400-series roadway from Waterdown up to Guelph, but that isn't in the cards right now.

 

[Jonathan's Junction]

This is one I actually forgot about - and yes, I suspect this will be the next corridor to happen.

MTO has been wanting to do a study on it for years, but it doesn't have a ton of political support, at least yet.

Waterloo Region did a study on a southern and eastern bypass of Cambridge, and actually built the southern part, but the eastern part is on hold as MTO has basically told them that they want to build it instead as a provincial facility.

It does make an appearance in the 2051 Transportation Master Plan for the GGH - Generally running from the 403 to 401 along the east side of Brantford and Cambridge:

IMO it makes a bit more sense to upgrade 6 to a freeway (at least from the 403 to 401) since we are already building the Morristown Bypass, and there's already an interchange with the 403 (which is being rebuilt to remove the left exit).

 

[Jonathan's Junction]

Waterloo Region did a study on a southern and eastern bypass of Cambridge, and actually built the southern part, but the eastern part is on hold as MTO has basically told them that they want to build it instead as a provincial facility.

The region's plan was to have it loop back up and tie in with Townline, something like this:

The signage actually already points to a connection with 8:

A 424 would make the eastern part unnecessary though, and presumably McQueen Shaver would be extended east to meet it.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The region's plan was to have it loop back up and tie in with Townline, something like this:

View attachment 736825

The signage actually already points to a connection with 8:
View attachment 736826


A 424 would make the eastern part unnecessary though, and presumably McQueen Shaver would be extended east to meet it.

Yes, that's my understanding. MTO has basically told the Region to halt work until they figure what they want to do for the theoretical 424 - eventually McQueen Shaver will likely connect into it around Highway 8.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see MTO start the study for the highway in the next few years.

 

[nfitz]

The region's plan was to have it loop back up and tie in with Townline, something like this:

View attachment 736825

The signage actually already points to a connection with 8:
View attachment 736826

A 424 would make the eastern part unnecessary though, and presumably McQueen Shaver would be extended east to meet it.

That sems to put an unnecessary load on the 401 carrying all the Kitchener/Waterloo traffic through Cambridge from Highway 8 to Townline. The original plan was the corridor that had been protected on the west side of Cambridge, essentially extending new 8 (new in 1987) south; but the environmental concerns over the Speed/Grand river got in the way originally - and now housing.

I'm not sure I see an alternative though, other than also building something extending Homer Watson around the west side - which is more direct. Or perhaps a new interchange at the troubled Roseville Road crossing over the 401.

 

[Westey]

Does Brantford Really need a perpendicular highway, or can this veer towards Hamilton instead.
I thought the experience from Hanlon and Highway 11 is that it is awfully expensive to convert a near-freeway into a full freeway.
So wouldn't it make more sense to turn Hwy 6 into a highway 11 (Centre median - a couple of bridges, still entrances but no left turns).
Then use the "savings" to build 424 and veer it a bit more towards Hamilton.

 

[Civdis]

I think Highway 6 should be upgraded to a full 400 series highway on a new corridor from the new Waterdown interchange to the 401. As a former resident of Burlington, I remember how dangerous this highway is (including a personal friend tragedy).

 

[lenaitch]

Does Brantford Really need a perpendicular highway, or can this veer towards Hamilton instead.
I thought the experience from Hanlon and Highway 11 is that it is awfully expensive to convert a near-freeway into a full freeway.
So wouldn't it make more sense to turn Hwy 6 into a highway 11 (Centre median - a couple of bridges, still entrances but no left turns).
Then use the "savings" to build 424 and veer it a bit more towards Hamilton.
View attachment 737291

I don't know what the MTO's formal position is, but from what I see on Hwy 11 and 115/35 is RIRO configurations are really tough on existing businesses. They still have direct access, but largely lose 'opposite direction' traffic, turning the stretches into struggling and failed businesses.

 

[Westey]

I don't know what the MTO's formal position is, but from what I see on Hwy 11 and 115/35 is RIRO configurations are really tough on existing businesses. They still have direct access, but largely lose 'opposite direction' traffic, turning the stretches into struggling and failed businesses.

I guess the alternative is to build a whole new freeway as was done from Huntsville to North Bay. That killed things even more