[cplchanb]

Wonder if Wabtec would want to use this order to refresh the loco design to better compete with Siemens who is absolutely dominating the market. Until now (maybe), that model isn’t officially offered anymore.

depends on if they see it as a worthy investment. the charger has essentially monopolised the market so they need to see a positive RoI before they spend hundreds of millions of dollars on developing a new loco.

 

[smallspy]

Then again, looking at the order, $600 mil seems like a lot for only 27 locomotives. Unless GO is ordering like 200 locomotives I am now starting to doubt that this is for GO.

Passenger locos regularly go for about $10mil / copy and more. $600mil should therefore net someone about 50 locos. And to be completely honest, I can't think of a single passenger carrier in North America who is in the market for a fleet that big at the moment. (There was Amtrak, but they're already getting large numbers of units from Siemens.)

Freight locos are much cheaper as they usually get built en masse to the (more-or-less) same specs. It's been a while since I followed the market, but I wouldn't be surprised if the current figure is about $4mil / unit - which would thus indicate an order for about 150 locos. And there are definitely freight railroads in North America who could easily absorb such an order without difficulty.

Dan

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Well, in MX's list of 2024 tenders, they have one that is for delivery of diesel electric locomotives, with an initial order of 27 with provisions for up to 53. Maybe it could be for GO then.

Metrolinx's current fleet is also not as reliable as it may seem, and maybe they're going with a number closer to 53 than 27 to start doing some replacements.

 

[generalcanada]

wait i thought that loco tender was effectively cancelled? thats been hanging around for almost 2 years

 

[Bojaxs]

Wonder if Wabtec would want to use this order to refresh the loco design to better compete with Siemens who is absolutely dominating the market. Until now (maybe), that model isn’t officially offered anymore.

Perhaps a newer version of the MP54AC? Slightly more horsepower? MP55AC?

Part of the contract could also be MP40's being refurbished to MP54's. Locomotive 647 came back into service just recently.

 

[WB62]

Wasn’t that engine out of service for years due to reliability issues? I thought that was the reason why Metrolinx didn’t go forward with converting more engines

 

[Bojaxs]

Wasn’t that engine out of service for years due to reliability issues? I thought that was the reason why Metrolinx didn’t go forward with converting more engines

Out of service for 18 months. But foamers were reporting it was just recently brought back into service.

Maybe Wabtec figured out a fix for the refurbishment and they're testing it out with locomotive 647.

 

[GOTransitFan206]

Perhaps a newer version of the MP54AC? Slightly more horsepower? MP55AC?

Part of the contract could also be MP40's being refurbished to MP54's. Locomotive 647 came back into service just recently.

5500 HP is too small of an upgrade. It's not worth it when you can spend, (for example) $1000 for a 10,000 HP upgrade,or a $500 upgrade of 100 HP.

Are you sure it wasn’t the video of the water flowing down the moat stairs? I don’t remember any GO parts of Union getting seriously flooded, only city of Toronto parts

Correction: It was actually the stairs in between the TTC Union and GO Bay Concourse, if I remember correctly.

 

[cplchanb]

Some interior shots of the refurbished 2114 (a Series II car).
View attachment 583699View attachment 583701View attachment 583702

yay! no screens between seats!

 

[Bojaxs]

Some interior shots of the refurbished 2114 (a Series II car).
View attachment 583699View attachment 583701View attachment 583702

It's no surprise why GO is in no rush to obtain EMUs. The amount of value they're getting from their bilevel coaches is incredible. I'm right in assuming this coach was manufactured in 1983? 40 years old, still going strong. How may people has this coach moved over it's life span? Will probably keep going for another 10 years.

GO Transit Series II Bilevel cars - CPTDB Wiki (Canadian Public Transit Discussion Board)

cptdb.ca

 

[WB62]

Hawker Siddeley (the original manufacturer for these cars) originally designed them to be very modular, the Series 1 cars when they were first built had provisions for EMU conversion inside of them, however I assume after multiple rebuilds those provisions no longer exist or would work with modern tech.

GO studied converting the Bi-Levels into EMU’s in a 1980 study and concluded that it would be too complicated and wouldn’t work with a lack of space in the cars for EMU equipment.

Here’s some cool concept art that Hawker Siddeley made for GO, VIA, and just a general design before anyone ordered them:

 

[turbanplanner]

yay! no screens between seats!

screens have been out for a while in my experience

Some interior shots of the refurbished 2114 (a Series II car).
View attachment 583699View attachment 583701View attachment 583702

Thank you for the photos! I haaaaaate the tiny bathrooms though! Sad they didn't re-do in the new style

 

[cplchanb]

Hawker Siddeley (the original manufacturer for these cars) originally designed them to be very modular, the Series 1 cars when they were first built had provisions for EMU conversion inside of them, however I assume after multiple rebuilds those provisions no longer exist or would work with modern tech.

GO studied converting the Bi-Levels into EMU’s in a 1980 study and concluded that it would be too complicated and wouldn’t work with a lack of space in the cars for EMU equipment.

Here’s some cool concept art that Hawker Siddeley made for GO, VIA, and just a general design before anyone ordered them:

im pretty sure they could convert a existing cars to DMU power cars where the lower level is the powerpack section. Im surprised they didnt think of that and are pushing forward with locos. ditto for EMU conversion

 

[WB62]

Yeah the B end door and a entire window needed to be removed on the Series 5b-10 coaches to add a lower level washroom, you can’t add them to older coaches without putting them through a massive retrofit.

Here’s a comparison between the Series 1 and 10 coaches, you can see the door is moved over quite a bit on the Series 10 coach:

 

[turbanplanner]

Yeah the B end door and a entire window needed to be removed on the Series 5b-10 coaches to add a lower level washroom, you can’t add them to older coaches without putting them through a massive retrofit.

Here’s a comparison between the Series 1 and 10 coaches, you can see the door is moved over quite a bit on the Series 10 coach:View attachment 584298View attachment 584299

Thanks never considered that, or why some cars end seats have no window!