[RU479]

I just wonder where equipment like that is stored and maintained, haven't seen stuff like that at either Willowbrook or Whitby.

 

[crs1026]

I just wonder where equipment like that is stored and maintained, haven't seen stuff like that at either Willowbrook or Whitby.

Until the Ontario Line work started in earnest, one often saw work equipment stored at Dufferin. Also at Nickle and Humberview on the Weston Sub, east of Danforth on LSE, and in laydown yards on the Newmarket and Stouffville Subs. And in the USRC.

- Paul

 

[smallspy]

Until the Ontario Line work started in earnest, one often saw work equipment stored at Dufferin. Also at Nickle and Humberview on the Weston Sub, east of Danforth on LSE, and in laydown yards on the Newmarket and Stouffville Subs. And in the USRC.

- Paul

GO has also taken over the remnants of the old Mimico Yard as an MOW track laydown site, and they can sometimes be found there.

The larger and more-seldom used hi-rail equipment usually gets stored in a yard on Magnificent Rd.

Dan

 

[RU479]

Just saw an entirely old livery consist on the 18:54 to Aurora (252 was the cab and 612 was the loco). Haven't seen one of those in years.

 

[WB62]

They changed the configuration of the existing old cab cars, now there’s two doors that are closed when the cab isn’t in use, blocking off the conductor and engineers seats, but keeping the door to the front of the car exposed:

Foamers will love this for the views

This is what it previously looked like when the cab was out of service:

 

[RU479]

They changed the configuration of the existing old cab cars, now there’s two doors that are closed when the cab isn’t in use, blocking off the conductor and engineers seats, but keeping the door to the front of the car exposed:
View attachment 529452View attachment 529453
Foamers will love this for the views

This is what it previously looked like when the cab was out of service: View attachment 529433

From what I’ve seen, only 251 and 252 are configured like this. I’ve noticed them being midset on the weekday Kitchener Line trains and then the consist being split into 6 car sets on the weekends with them leading.

 

[EnviroTO]

Like how the slides show EMUs

I'm not sure how long it will take until we see them, but I'm pretty sure we will. I don't think 14 billion dollars is going to be spent just to run a few more GO bi-level trains per hour. Metrolinx could easily have continued its double tracking and station construction works without this massive contract with ONxpress. Also, if the goal was just electrification that would be a simpler contract. I'm pretty sure the idea of ONxpress (Alstom and Deutsche Bahn) is to change things significantly and I'm not sure why they would recommend electric locomotives here while largely having EMUs in Germany except for freight operations. If ONxpress orders locomotives I would guess they would be hybrids for the purpose of lines and parts of lines that will not see electrification or for high capacity rush hour trips which will probably continue to rely on GO bi-levels.

 

[T3G]

I'm not sure why they would recommend electric locomotives here while largely having EMUs in Germany except for freight operations.

Because we have our own operating conditions.

It doesn't matter what they have in Germany, what matters is what we have here.

 

[drum118]

Dec 15
Caught 257 on the rear with 239 as a coach departing Union eastbound and no idea which line they will run on other than RH or Stouffville.

 

[T3G]

The old cab cars are not restricted from running on any services to the best of my knowledge. I've caught them on Lakeshore West recently.

 

[RU479]

The old cab cars are not restricted from running on any services to the best of my knowledge. I've caught them on Lakeshore West recently.

I have noticed GO has seemingly put most of them on 10 car consists, after mostly being on 12 car consists since the middle of 2022.

 

[WB62]

I don’t think they’re doing that on purpose, I think they just happened to end up on 10 car trains

 

[EnviroTO]

Because we have our own operating conditions.

It doesn't matter what they have in Germany, what matters is what we have here.

What unique conditions exist here that would affect the right choice for rail vehicle other than the service we are starting with which is "low frequency rush hour commuter service" which is exactly what this project is meant to get away from?

A choice of locomotive pulled bi-levels leads to the choice of trains coming less frequently (you can carry the same number of people with less trains) travelling more slowly (slower acceleration), and trains that are slower and coming less frequently leads to less riders (less connections, less availability at the time people are making their trip, etc.). The reality is that locomotive pulled bi-levels will never provide a high frequency frequent stop urban rail service successfully in Toronto, and Alstom and Deutsche Bahn must know this. If the goal is high frequency you need to build up ridership to the point it requires multi-level trains, not start with multi-level. The entire ridership of GO Transit right now (all lines and bus routes included) is less than the RER E line in Paris which is the RER line with the least ridership. If we operate bi-levels at the beginning the frequency on the route will never get to a point that makes it competitive.

 

[T3G]

What unique conditions exist here that would affect the right choice for rail vehicle other than the service we are starting with which is "low frequency rush hour commuter service" which is exactly what this project is meant to get away from?

The reality is that locomotive pulled bi-levels will never provide a high frequency frequent stop urban rail service successfully in Toronto, and Alstom and Deutsche Bahn must know this.

If we operate bi-levels at the beginning the frequency on the route will never get to a point that makes it competitive.

Those are the unique conditions I was referring to. We have almost 1000 BiLevels, the majority of which are less than 20 years old, and most of those that aren't have either been refurbished recently or are presently undergoing refurbishment.

EMUs might be the stock of choice if GO expansion ever reaches the point where wires start being strung up, but I'm sure Alstom and Deutsche Bahn are also aware of the fact that junking hundreds of passenger cars with many decades of life still available to them would be an appalling waste of money. Any plan that they devise will have to take these into account. Unless they devise a plan where long distance commuter lines like Barrie and Niagara Falls end up gobbling up the entire supply of BiLevels, don't expect EMUs to form the majority of the fleet for decades to come.

Or maybe they will. Any kind of notion of fiscal responsibility or good planning is completely foreign in this country, so who knows what they'll actually end up doing.

 

[EnviroTO]

EMUs might be the stock of choice if GO expansion ever reaches the point where wires start being strung up,

That is the ONxpress contract. What GO does before the ONxpress contract delivers its electrification and signalling improvements would no doubt be extending the life of what it is doing now with marginal improvements at best.

but I'm sure Alstom and Deutsche Bahn are also aware of the fact that junking hundreds of passenger cars with many decades of life still available to them would be an appalling waste of money. Any plan that they devise will have to take these into account. Unless they devise a plan where long distance commuter lines like Barrie and Niagara Falls end up gobbling up the entire supply of BiLevels, don't expect EMUs to form the majority of the fleet for decades to come.

The current plan doesn't complete until 2032. That means that somehow the existing fleet needs to live 8-9 years (plus delays +/- 100%) and handle service extensions to Bowmanville, Confederation, and the marginal improvements they will make to add service. They can't do that with new EMU equipment because Oshawa to Bowmanville, Burlington to Confederation, Bramalea to Kitchener, and the Milton, Bolton, and Richmond Hill lines will not be electrified. As a line is electrified and ready for expanded services they are going to need equipment they don't have right now which will make that loco + bi-level equipment currently running on the line available for enhancements on the other lines. Kitchener will probably still see some bi-levels 30 years from now, but not Agincourt or St.Clair-Weston. The optimal 25 year plan fleet is EMU for core services (single-deck to start, multi-deck if demand warrants it later and signalling can't achieve the headways to handle the demand) and hybrid electic / bio-diesel locomotives pulling multi-deck coaches.