[Bojaxs]

There are other projects we could cancel though. Cancelling the highway 7 freeway between Kitchener and Guelph would free up a billion dollars, which could probably support a huge service increase between the two cities. I have similar thoughts about highway 413. Repairing the old Science Centre building would also likely be cheaper than the new one, and free up another billion.

It's just a question of what infrastructure the province wants to prioritize, and right now there's lots of things getting prioritized above GO expansion that I think bring less value to the province.

I would also divert funding from other GO projects towards more grade separations.

For instance, I question the need to extend the Kitchener line to Stratford when it'll no doubt see very limited service. Better to spend that money on improving the existing Kitchener line so that at a later time we can extend the line to Stratford and give it the service it deserves.

With GO it feels like we're spending money on projects that don't feel high on priority list, while ignoring deficiencies with the existing network. Kerr st. grade separation in Oakville should have started years ago. Why are we scaling back double tracking of the Barrie line while extending service to Stratford?

 

[duffo]

why are we scaling back double tracking of the Barrie line while extending service to Stratford?

Because one costs practically nothing compared to the other. In the wake of the total cock-up that is GO Expansion, MX (and by extension political leaders) is desperate for a "quick win".

 

[urbanclient]

Slow pace, yes…. But I would ask - what number is affordable ? Would we cancel a GO Expansion route and shift the money to more grade seps on the rest?
That would not be my preference. This is something that will take a long time to address, likely beyond any of our lifetimes.

- Paul

How was Melbourne able to do this:

"As of May 2026, 91 crossings have been removed and 49 train stations have been built or rebuilt" in less time than it took Metrolinx to do 8 grade separations?

Is it simply a matter of money?

 

[crs1026]

How was Melbourne able to do this:

I have no idea. Hopefully others can assist?

"As of May 2026, 91 crossings have been removed and 49 train stations have been built or rebuilt" in less time than it took Metrolinx to do 8 grade separations?

Is it simply a matter of money?

Not totally, but the need to fund each project collectively from two or three levels of government, plus whatever railway, creates an absurd complexity just to approve the project and reach consensus and willingness to spend the money. A single funding source would be an improvement, although possibly a political third rail for whatever level of government has to fund it. Design decisions for overpass projects do create local reactions, and there has to be a consultative process.... we have seen enough cases where ML arbitrarily tells a community how a project will proceed and the community then acts in opposition. ML is doing a half decent job of staying in touch with communities once work begins, but the initial planning process will drag municipalities into any controversy.

I have a feeling that ML staff would have an aneurism if they were asked to operate with multiple projects simultaneously on a single route. Coordinating things like weekend outages would be horriffic. One or at most two projects per line at a time is probably all that is humanly possible within the bandwidth of ML, especially while Expansion itself is happening. And assuming each project imposes a time penalty on trip schedules, one might not want more than one or two slow ordered zones on a route at a time.

- Paul

 

[taylortbb]

How was Melbourne able to do this:

"As of May 2026, 91 crossings have been removed and 49 train stations have been built or rebuilt" in less time than it took Metrolinx to do 8 grade separations?

Is it simply a matter of money?

There's also a certain amount of good old-fashioned Metrolinx ineptness.

Just look at the differences in Ontario LRT construction when the Region of Waterloo does it vs when Metrolinx does it.

 

[smallspy]

How was Melbourne able to do this:

"As of May 2026, 91 crossings have been removed and 49 train stations have been built or rebuilt" in less time than it took Metrolinx to do 8 grade separations?

Is it simply a matter of money?

There are two main reasons.

Part of it was that yes, they threw money at the problem. A lot of it.

But the other half of the equation is that they created an agency who's sole purpose was to run the level crossing removal program and nothing more. They have coordinated with other entities in the process (towns for final road layouts, Transport Victoria and ARTC for service design, etc.) but ultimately they were given the mandate and power to remove as many level crossings as they can.

Dan

 

[Urban Sky]

30-50 years’ time

I'll be getting news of full electrification through a Neuralink implant in a retirement home, if ever.

Just for the records: I wasn‘t refering to „30-50 years time“ as a timeline for electrification, but as an indication for how firm and stable your long-term planning has to be before electrification makes sense. Electrification is always one of the last steps of any major modernization project…

 

[urbanclient]

Just for the records: I wasn‘t refering to „30-50 years time“ as a timeline for electrification, but for an indication for how firm and stable your long-term planning has to be before electrification makes sense. Electrification is always one of the last steps of any major modernization project…

That's a good clarification. I did understand you didn't mean for the initial ~260km of GO Expansion.

I do wonder though if 30-50 years is a bit of an exaggeration, or indicative of a modern phenomenon. Sydney and Melbourne first converted steam locomotive lines to electrification. That was 100 years ago. Many lines and level crossing removals came much later. Not sure who said this, but I don't see why level crossing removals have to be done before/after electrification.

 

[11th]

That's a good clarification. I did understand you didn't mean for the initial ~260km of GO Expansion.

I do wonder though if 30-50 years is a bit of an exaggeration, or indicative of a modern phenomenon. Sydney and Melbourne first converted steam locomotive lines to electrification. That was 100 years ago. Many lines and level crossing removals came much later. Not sure who said this, but I don't see why level crossing removals have to be done before/after electrification.

It's likely because back when they did the electrification, the scope for grade seperation was far into the future. In our case, we are wishing to do everything within a shorter time frame.

 

[Urban Sky]

It's likely because back when they did the electrification, the scope for grade seperation was far into the future. In our case, we are wishing to do everything within a shorter time frame.

Exactly, or put differently: the more we descope GO Expansion, the earlier electrification can happen.

Be careful what you wish for…

 

[afransen]

Exactly, or put differently: the more we descope GO Expansion, the earlier electrification can happen.

Be careful what you wish for…

How much more can they descope it?

 

[Urban Sky]

How much more can they descope it?

Last time I talked to the responsible Project Sponsor (a good friend and former colleague of mine), it was still akin to the largest transit-focused rail projects on this planet and massive enough to keep hundreds of highly skilled professionals and workers busy for many decades to come..

 

[afransen]

Citation needed, I think, unless those qualifiers are doing some heavy lifting. Is it even among the largest in the anglosphere?

 

[reinventingthewheel]

Citation needed, I think, unless those qualifiers are doing some heavy lifting. Is it even among the largest in the anglosphere?

Name something you think is larger (not saying it doesn’t exist). It’s all up to interpretation, considering this is just a mostly undelivered plan so far. If this takes say 30 years to deliver then it’s realistically comparable to any combination of rail projects delivered in one region in a 30 year span.

 

[Urban Sky]

Citation needed, I think, unless those qualifiers are doing some heavy lifting. Is it even among the largest in the anglosphere?

Feel free to name a few transit-focused rail infrastructure projects or initiatives which are more ambitous than GO Expansion and ongoing. I honestly struggle to think of any…