[WB62]

OCS is designed into the Union Station Enhancement Project canopies, you can look at the blueprints online at the Toronto application information centre:

Application Details

www.toronto.ca

Renderings also include electrification:

According to what was presented at TRACCS earlier this week, the southern platforms will be electrified and Lakeshore services will run fully electric through Union Station.

I was told about this being studied late last year, so I’m glad they’re planning to move forward with at least some electrification at Union, where possible.

 

[Sunnyside]

What stands out to me are the inconsistencies with extant plans, particularly in the Hamilton area. West Harbour is supposed to see half-hourly service soon, and Confederation is (was?) supposed to see the same. No Hamilton Station (Hunter, WH, Confed) were to see any electric trains, yet this suggests that the few(er) trains running to Hamilton's stations will be electric? OK.

Hamilton can likely support only the inverse of what’s proposed (i.e the old plan): More diesel trains on the shared freight tracks. The implied coexistence simply isn’t doable with existing or planned infrastructure, nor CN and CPKC’s behaviour to that end.

These quirks play out across the map, and It makes me think this isn’t a fully-formed idea. It throws out SmartTrack for one, and the Kitchener line in general- which should’ve been easy bc of the UPX. This all has big implications for backdoor decision-making, if true; Hamilton’s a very costly venture, whose inclusion was often in ‘initial’ study docs of 10-15 years ago, which went all-in on Lakeshore and sometimes the UPX. I'd doubted that we’d ever reverse course on trading off Hamilton for an electrified network, but short of some logistical breakthrough or mapping oversight (meaning funding's even tighter), that's what we're looking at.

Edited for clarity. I'll also add that its possible DB has demonstrated Hamilton can be brought into the fold for a low cost, making it better for this bare-minimum scenario compared to electrifying other lines. If true, additional funding will almost certainly come to fund these, as we already know they were comparatively cheap, and the broken promise to the 905 would be politically disastrous.

 

[afransen]

Heres another thing I’ll add on that someone else wrote:

View attachment 651918

I think MX gets this reaction because they have been giving the public the mushroom treatment for years (keep us in the dark and feed us crap).

 

[Deadpool X]

Deutsche Bahn is not going to run the GO trains anymore. Does this news mean GO expansion is now cancelled?

Metrolinx quietly drops Deutsche Bahn, Aecon from multibillion-dollar GO expansion project​

The province’s transit agency has dropped Deutsche Bahn, Germany’s national rail company, and Canadian construction company Aecon Group from its multibillion dollar GO expansion project less than two years after they were contracted to operate and maintain the GO train network.
The two companies were supposed to take over the operations and maintenance of GO rail and UP Express for a 23-year term starting on Jan. 1, though a handover was never announced. Metrolinx Spokesperson Andrea Ernesaks said “both teams worked closely toward this goal,” but added that “the parties are working on an amicable settlement to end the partnership.”
Metrolinx confirmed that the partnership had been severed after receiving questions from the Star.

Source: https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/me...cle_e852345d-a0e9-48ed-87bc-ab13ae78314e.html

 

[ARG1]

Deutsche Bahn is not going to run the GO trains anymore. Does this news mean GO expansion is now cancelled?


Source: https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/me...cle_e852345d-a0e9-48ed-87bc-ab13ae78314e.html

No, the only thing that was cancelled was ONXpress' operations contract. ONXpress will electrify and build the infrastructure, but Alstom will continue to operate GO like they've always have.

This does actually have massive ramifications to what the end product will look like, and realistically speaking, this will be a massive blow to whatever service we end up receiving. However, this isn't the end for GO Expansion. All this means is in all likelihood, we'll just receive a good product instead of a great one. We're still going to get our 15m all day electrified service and maybe a bit better, but it's unlikely to be significantly better.

 

[The REAL]

Buy Exo’s 20 ALP-45DPs to launch, and order a bunch of ALP-46s for wider rollout, come on let’s go

Imagine if Metrolinx ordered the EMU trains from the ones in Australia. Those trains are beautiful.

 

[The REAL]

No, the only thing that was cancelled was ONXpress' operations contract. ONXpress will electrify and build the infrastructure, but Alstom will continue to operate GO like they've always have.

This does actually have massive ramifications to what the end product will look like, and realistically speaking, this will be a massive blow to whatever service we end up receiving. However, this isn't the end for GO Expansion. All this means is in all likelihood, we'll just receive a good product instead of a great one. We're still going to get our 15m all day electrified service and maybe a bit better, but it's unlikely to be significantly better.

Which REALLY sucks. I was really looking forward to German style train scheduling. Does this mean that our upcoming signal upgrades won't be what they were meant to be?

 

[The REAL]

We already had this conversation a page or two back in this thread. If Metrolinx makes the switch to EMU's, what will they do with the 900+ bi-level coaches they have in stock?

EDIT: Page 232-233

GO Transit Electrification | Metrolinx

Because EMUs are superior in every way? I’m sure they will still be on the market when the BiLevels naturally reach the end of their life. In the meantime, nixing perfectly usable equipment strikes me as being extraordinarily shortsighted.

urbantoronto.ca

These are probably my favorite Bi-level trains and i wish GO would use these.

 

[guavadelic]

I wonder if the departure of CEO Phil Verster is somehow connected to this? He spent years championing this project, did he take off in December once he saw this project was being neutered?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Pathetic. Then again, are we surprised? And the government want to talk about GO 2.0

AoD

 

[reaperexpress]

No, the only thing that was cancelled was ONXpress' operations contract. ONXpress will electrify and build the infrastructure, but Alstom will continue to operate GO like they've always have.

This does actually have massive ramifications to what the end product will look like, and realistically speaking, this will be a massive blow to whatever service we end up receiving. However, this isn't the end for GO Expansion. All this means is in all likelihood, we'll just receive a good product instead of a great one. We're still going to get our 15m all day electrified service and maybe a bit better, but it's unlikely to be significantly better.

Remaining with the status quo rail operations style means that we will receive less train service per dollar spent. Part of the major changes that ONXpress was trying to get implemented included European-style rail operating rules. For example, in developed European countries, it is extremely rare for there to be two operators in the cab as is the case currently on GO. Each train typically has 2 employees (one operator, one conductor) instead of 3 on GO (2 operators, one Customer Service Ambassador). Additionally, EU trains are generally not designed to accommodate two operators, so requiring two operators would require modifications to the cab design, increasing the cost of using off-the-shelf train designs in Ontario, which obviously increases train purchase costs.

The key to enabling single-operator trains is an automatic train protection system like ETCS, which still seems to be on the table. Hopefully they will be able to implement ETCS without needing to totally redesign it to conform to Transport Canada's archaic regulations. Needing to make deep changes to ETCS would increase the chance of introducing bugs (reducing reliability) and reducing compatibility with other global ETCS products (increasing the cost of maintenance and train acquisition)

 

[reaperexpress]

@Willybru21 over on the Discord server "Global Transit & Infrastructure Central" posted this image in the GO Transit thread. Apparently at the recent TRACCS conference, a version of this map was shown and @Willybru21 was able to clean it up. cc @smallspy @crs1026 @Northern Light @reaperexpress


View attachment 651788

Some thoughts on the '10-year fleet plan' map, keeping in mind that it may simply represent a worst case scenario used as a cautionary tale:

As noted by others, it's odd that they show electric service to Hamilton. One possibility is that they're using the term broadly to include dual-mode trains (diesel + overhead wire, or battery + overhead wire). Montreal has 19 surplus ALP45DP diesel+electric locomotives left over from when the Mont Royal tunnel was available for mainline trains, and that would be sufficient to run the services shown as 'electric locomotive' (hourly all-day service from Bowmanville to Hamilton plus some peak-period trains from Hamilton and Aldershot). I'm sure Exo would be happy to trade their ALP45DPs for the refurbished F59PHs that GO is currently building.

The weirdest part is that they show the EMUs also continuing to Aldershot, which is in CN territory. If they plan to electrify that segment then that's fine, but if they're thinking of battery-electric multiple units, that's a problem. Nowadays it makes sense for EMUs to have some off-wire capacity to travel around yards and get to the next station in the event of a power failure. But the larger the batteries need to be, the heavier/slower the trains are, and the more expensive they are to purchase and maintain. Needing to carry heavy batteries across the entire line just to extend the local service a bit further towards Hamilton seems like a poor use of passengers' time and money.

As others have noted, it's bizarre that they show the UPX being electrified but not the local service to Bramalea. Bramalea is only 1 km beyond the edge of Metrolinx trackage, so even if CN flatly refuses to electrify that stretch (which would be odd considering they'd never run a double-stack freight train on those particular tracks anyway), it wouldn't take much battery capacity for an EMU to travel to and from the station. Regardless of electrification, it would probably be good for Metrolinx to purchase the southern two tracks through Bramalea anyway since we'd hope to run a bunch of service terminating there. No point paying CN indefinitely for track access and dispatching for a bunch of trains that only just barely graze the edge of their territory before heading back to Toronto.

As for the frequencies themselves, my biggest concern with that business-as-usual scenario is that the low total frequencies on the core sections imply that the trains coming from distant cities like Hamilton, Kitchener-Waterloo, Guelph and Barrie are making all stops. The only off-peak express trains I can deduce on there are the 4 trains per day from Niagara Falls, which is the same frequency we already had 5 years ago. Low average speeds on longer distance services would severely undermine the GO network's ability to compete with 400-series highways. It is essential for the longer distance trains to operate in addition to the local service. For example on Lakeshore West, the express service to West Harbour should be in addition to the 15-minute local service to Burlington, for a total of 5 to 6 trains per hour off-peak between Burlington and Toronto. The hourly express train from Barrie should be in addition to the half-hourly local train from Aurora, etc.

 

[Northern Light]

I wonder if the departure of CEO Phil Verster is somehow connected to this? He spent years championing this project, did he take off in December once he saw this project was being neutered?

Phil's departure began long before it was announced.

 

[crs1026]

I am hoping (grasping at straws, actually) that this chart shows the fleet requirements as opposed to the network design. It may inform what size of electric fleet needs to be procured in a "Phase I" procurement rather than what is being envisioned for the longer term. Certainly, getting wires in place just on the Lakeshore and to Pearson is enough for the next five and possibly ten years. Doesn't mean there isn't more to come later.
Still, the chart hints at a much reduced service plan, ie half hourly rather than 15 minute headways. And so much of the GO Expansion discussion talks about a 2050 timeframe, rather than 2030 or the original 2025.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

I wonder if the departure of CEO Phil Verster is somehow connected to this? He spent years championing this project, did he take off in December once he saw this project was being neutered?

Something clearly wasn't right that triggered Phil's sudden exit. But I would connect other dots to Onxpress as well. This kind of cancellation doesn't happen overnight, there was no doubt a period of discussion and legal wrangling before the discontinuance was made official. I would speculate that the reelection of the Ford regime and the confirmation of the Minister must have been added ducks in the row. Possibly the Provincial budget. And meanwhile, any long lead time prerequisites that weren't advancing would aggravate the situation.

- Paul