[afransen]

I think this also raises questions about how well will the operation of Line 5 go with through-running trains between the underground and non-grade separated portions. If the underground portion is similarly hobbled, it will be a catastrophe.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

I think this also raises questions about how well will the operation of Line 5 go with through-running trains between the underground and non-grade separated portions. If the underground portion is similarly hobbled, it will be a catastrophe.

If that becomes the case, then the only serious answer I’m loathe to say is forcing the transfer at Laird until the four parties figure out how to resolve operations.

 

[urbanclient]

I think this also raises questions about how well will the operation of Line 5 go with through-running trains between the underground and non-grade separated portions. If the underground portion is similarly hobbled, it will be a catastrophe.

I would argue in its current state it already is a catastrophe (see below). If signal priority isn't sorted out by the spring opening of Line 5 Eglinton, then the above ground section will be a slow ~30 minute slog with bunching and inconsistent trip times. Short turns at Laird would be the only hope of not having the cancer spread to the western underground section.

On the bright side, the underground section is supposed to be under Automatic Train Control; so slow speeds for that section, if any, should be fixed relatively easily.

TTC staff: The current schedule that we have for revenue service demonstration [for Line 5] to allow the line to actually achieve the performance that is needed, we are currently scheduling 112 minutes round trip.

 

[afransen]

Finch LRT is a very important showcase. It will either confirm the viability of LRTs in this city, or bury the whole idea for a long time.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Line 10. Very similar project, but a different operator and transportation department. If Peel/Mississauga is successful with it (whenever it opens), that could help show the way if Toronto can't get its act together.

 

[Steve X]

Large stretches of the ION (7.5km roughly) run side running or center running, so it has to deal with not only left turn but also a fair amount of right turn traffic constantly. Even then it doesn't even complicate it that much, yes there's crashes but it's close to one a month if that.

Finch is much wider than the roads the ION runs on. So pedestrian must be given enough time to cross the road which is around 40 seconds. You can’t cut that short and let a train through. They’ll have to change it to two stage crossing if they want to work around TSP and preemption.

It’s much better if they can program the line to get a green wave. If trains get delayed, they’ll just get delayed to the next wave.

If the city get both if these items going while operators drive full speed, we’ll see significant improvement.

 

[afransen]

Fire all those TTC staff!! "Believe??" Really now?

Imbeciles. They clearly do not know what they are doing. They could've also talked to York Region about TSP on the VIVA bus ways.


Even better yet! I just Googled which places in North America uses TSP:

PAGE 57:

https://nacto.org/wp-content/uploads/transit_signal_priority_handbook_smith.pdf

Rank incompetence.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

2009 "LRT TTC Toronto",... oh, just skip over to the 2:30 mark,... to watch the simulation as LRT easily zoom by car traffic!

 

[allabootmatt]

I'm encouraged by the tone of comments from everyone involved here, and I understand that some of these changes (especially on the legacy streetcar network) will take time to implement. But what's stopping TTC sending a directive to Line 6 operators, right now, telling them to speed up to X km/h (where X is at least 50% faster than current), wherever they deem safe to do so? This isn't rocket science, and you'd think the politicians will want to show immediate improvement.

Ford and Sarkaria must be hitting the ceiling.

 

[youngblood]

Not sure if this had been previously posted

https://twitter.com/x/status/1998806499435622905

 

[JSF-1]

I'm encouraged by the tone of comments from everyone involved here, and I understand that some of these changes (especially on the legacy streetcar network) will take time to implement. But what's stopping TTC sending a directive to Line 6 operators, right now, telling them to speed up to X km/hm (where X is at least 50% faster than current), wherever they deem safe to do so? This isn't rocket science, and you'd think the politicians will want to show immediate improvement.

Ford and Sarkaria must be hitting the ceiling.

If I am understanding things correctly, the TTC can't due to the contract with Mosaic Transit. It seems that any change like speed or implementation of TSP has to be amended into the contract, although the Province seems to be disputing this. Regardless if anything this shows a serious flaw in the idea of a P3 since if this is the case then that means the Crosstown and even worse the Ontario Line are at risk of having there services hamstrung but contractual nonsense. If every change to one of these services requires amendments to contracts with the private partner then imo there is zero benefit to using P3's since now its issues can extend beyond just the construction of a line but its very operations after opening day.

 

[urbanclient]

Finch is much wider than the roads the ION runs on. So pedestrian must be given enough time to cross the road which is around 40 seconds. You can’t cut that short and let a train through.

"can't" as in not legal or feasible in Toronto, or "can't" as in not physically possible on this planet?

Sorry Steve, I'm pretty sure it's possible on Earth to shorten pedestrian crossing time in favour of transit:

I think this is relevant here. Someone posted on Reddit about the Line 9 tramline in the Paris area. It is exactly the same length at 10.3km. Has 19 stops. and can do the end to end trip in 32min. (scheduled at 30min)

Look in this video at how aggressively they drive the trams. There seem to be many more pedestrian and car crossings than on Finch West. Most lights switch off before the tram arrives.

 

[eglinton1661]

I'm encouraged by the tone of comments from everyone involved here, and I understand that some of these changes (especially on the legacy streetcar network) will take time to implement. But what's stopping TTC sending a directive to Line 6 operators, right now, telling them to speed up to X km/h (where X is at least 50% faster than current), wherever they deem safe to do so? This isn't rocket science, and you'd think the politicians will want to show immediate improvement.

Because TTC claims that if the ran the trains faster, they would need to consult Metrolinx and Mosaic because faster running trains would increase the operational and maintenance burden on Mosaic/Metrolinx

TTC staff: but the impact of the change in the signal may impact the runtime which will cause an impact to the operations, maintenance on the various vehicles. It's not just a simple TSP, it then causes a knock on effect that needs to be reviewed by mosaic and metrolinx

Finch West Line 6 LRT

Live updates: - The earliest Line 6 improvements can be implemented is at the end of the "soft opening" in "early spring" - TTC staff would need to consult with Mosaic and Metrolinx if it were to speed up the LRT because it would impact maintenance costs - In response to question from...

urbantoronto.ca

Even though, as Steve Munro points out, running the trains faster would actually require less service, not more

https://twitter.com/x/status/1998843375768789334

 

[afransen]

If the trains operated faster, would it not mean fewer vehicles in operation at any given point in time to deliver a specific frequency? Am I taking crazy pills? The operating cost should be lower. Perhaps more wear and tear per vehicle hour operated, but fewer vehicle hours.

 

[Thaboss]

I think this is relevant here. Someone posted on Reddit about the Line 9 tramline in the Paris area. It is exactly the same length at 10.3km. Has 19 stops. and can do the end to end trip in 32min. (scheduled at 30min)

Look in this video at how aggressively they drive the trams. There seem to be many more pedestrian and car crossings than on Finch West. Most lights switch off before the tram arrives.

Holy crap that first intersection crossing lol toronto would never.

 

[urbanclient]

One of the many things that should piss people off about this line is that, by the way it is set up, it is more expensive to run.

They could easily cut these travel times in half by complete transit priority having the trains stop ONLY at stations and then can automatically proceed. Maintaining the 6 minute frequency, would mean that for every 1 trip made currently, they could make 2 and cut the staff by 50%. All this from the TTC and City who say they are starved for transit funding.

^^^ @ssiguy2 you are ahead of the curve.

As shown in today's board meeting, credit to @eglinton1661 for transcribing, at least some of the upper TTC staff are incompetent liars.

Even though, as Steve Munro points out, running the trains faster would actually require less service, not more

https://twitter.com/x/status/1998843375768789334

In other Captain Obvious news, the union tries to protect and increase line worker jobs. Thank our good graces that some of the councillors and the TTC board are putting the TTC's feet to the fire for once.