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urbanclient said:
"can't" as in not legal or feasible in Toronto, or "can't" as in not physically possible on this planet?

Sorry Steve, I'm pretty sure it's possible on Earth to shorten pedestrian crossing time in favour of transit:
Click to expand...
Can’t as in TO can’t implement it without giving excuses.
 
eglinton1661 said:
Saxe: I understand that Kitchener has true TSP. Have you reviewed their system?

TTC staff: we can certainly look into that but it's always depending on what technology they use and how it varies with us

Saxe: but not something you've reviewed?

TTC staff: not yet
Click to expand...

They haven't reviewed ION? I'm sorry but how is that possible? Kitchener-Waterloo is in driving and public transit distance. It doesn't require a passport or flights to reach. And they haven't reviewed it yet? Are you effing kidding me? Ion opened in 2019 (yes I had to look it up) and TTC staff couldn't be bothered to review it in the 6 years since it opened? Even knowing we were opening the Eglinton and Finch LRTs? I'm sorry but that is sheer incompetence.
 
Dan416 said:
They haven't reviewed ION? I'm sorry but how is that possible? Kitchener-Waterloo is in driving and public transit distance. It doesn't require a passport or flights to reach. And they haven't reviewed it yet? Are you effing kidding me? Ion opened in 2019 (yes I had to look it up) and TTC staff couldn't be bothered to review it in the 6 years since it opened? Even knowing we were opening the Eglinton and Finch LRTs? I'm sorry but that is sheer incompetence.
Click to expand...
Outrageous.

In my line of work, we are frequently sharing experiences, lessons learned, best practices with non-competitive peers. Some are from the other side of the world, but some are in the US.
 
Dan416 said:
They haven't reviewed ION? I'm sorry but how is that possible? Kitchener-Waterloo is in driving and public transit distance. It doesn't require a passport or flights to reach. And they haven't reviewed it yet? Are you effing kidding me? Ion opened in 2019 (yes I had to look it up) and TTC staff couldn't be bothered to review it in the 6 years since it opened? Even knowing we were opening the Eglinton and Finch LRTs? I'm sorry but that is sheer incompetence.
Click to expand...
Well that explains why the used actual traffic lights for the trains on Line 6 instead of the proper transit lights.
 
urbanclient said:
Sorry Steve, I'm pretty sure it's possible on Earth to shorten pedestrian crossing time in favour of transit:
Click to expand...
Finch is 40m wide in some places and all of that space is either track or car lanes, whereas in that video, Paris provides loads of space for pedestrians to cross in stages if they need, either a couple metres wide or huge areas, breaking up crossings by creating refuge islands, often protected by bollards. At every pedestrian crossing in that video there is enough room for a people to cross part of the way and safely wait if there isn't enough time to cross fully. If we had that here maybe different timings could be considered.

Toronto uses 1.0 metres / second as a walking speed to account for those walking slower, like children or seniors. Shortening pedestrian crossing times would mean people would get "trapped" in the middle, and creating refuge islands would be an incredible cost (worth it everywhere imo, but that's not happening).

I once asked Becky Katz, who used to head the pedestrian unit in transportation services, why the city doesn't have two/multi stage crossings, and her answer was people hate them, and that creates an obstacle at the city. It stunned me because when I've used them in Europe I think they're amazing and feel much safer, but they're often configured to have people only cross one or two lanes at a time. The one people here know is at Queen and University where you're crossing 4 lanes on each side of the refuge, so I guess it's not surprising that when that's your image of a two/multi stage crossing, you dislike it.
 
txlseries4 said:
Finch is 40m wide in some places and all of that space is either track or car lanes, whereas in that video, Paris provides loads of space for pedestrians to cross in stages if they need, either a couple metres wide or huge areas, breaking up crossings by creating refuge islands, often protected by bollards. At every pedestrian crossing in that video there is enough room for a people to cross part of the way and safely wait if there isn't enough time to cross fully. If we had that here maybe different timings could be considered.

Toronto uses 1.0 metres / second as a walking speed to account for those walking slower, like children or seniors. Shortening pedestrian crossing times would mean people would get "trapped" in the middle, and creating refuge islands would be an incredible cost (worth it everywhere imo, but that's not happening).

I once asked Becky Katz, who used to head the pedestrian unit in transportation services, why the city doesn't have two/multi stage crossings, and her answer was people hate them, and that creates an obstacle at the city. It stunned me because when I've used them in Europe I think they're amazing and feel much safer, but they're often configured to have people only cross one or two lanes at a time. The one people here know is at Queen and University where you're crossing 4 lanes on each side of the refuge, so I guess it's not surprising that when that's your image of a two/multi stage crossing, you dislike it.
Click to expand...
Did York Region accomplish this with their VIVA BRT network?

Does this constitute as a two/ multi stage crossing? Is this considered a refuge island?

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www.google.com www.google.com
 
txlseries4 said:
Finch is 40m wide in some places and all of that space is either track or car lanes, whereas in that video, Paris provides loads of space for pedestrians to cross in stages if they need, either a couple metres wide or huge areas, breaking up crossings by creating refuge islands, often protected by bollards. At every pedestrian crossing in that video there is enough room for a people to cross part of the way and safely wait if there isn't enough time to cross fully. If we had that here maybe different timings could be considered.

Toronto uses 1.0 metres / second as a walking speed to account for those walking slower, like children or seniors. Shortening pedestrian crossing times would mean people would get "trapped" in the middle, and creating refuge islands would be an incredible cost (worth it everywhere imo, but that's not happening).

I once asked Becky Katz, who used to head the pedestrian unit in transportation services, why the city doesn't have two/multi stage crossings, and her answer was people hate them, and that creates an obstacle at the city. It stunned me because when I've used them in Europe I think they're amazing and feel much safer, but they're often configured to have people only cross one or two lanes at a time. The one people here know is at Queen and University where you're crossing 4 lanes on each side of the refuge, so I guess it's not surprising that when that's your image of a two/multi stage crossing, you dislike it.
Click to expand...
People hate it when it becomes an excuse to make your 3 minute wait to cross an intersection a 6 minute wait because you have to wait for a second cycle.
 
txlseries4 said:
Finch is 40m wide in some places and all of that space is either track or car lanes, whereas in that video, Paris provides loads of space for pedestrians to cross in stages if they need, either a couple metres wide or huge areas, breaking up crossings by creating refuge islands, often protected by bollards. At every pedestrian crossing in that video there is enough room for a people to cross part of the way and safely wait if there isn't enough time to cross fully. If we had that here maybe different timings could be considered.

Toronto uses 1.0 metres / second as a walking speed to account for those walking slower, like children or seniors. Shortening pedestrian crossing times would mean people would get "trapped" in the middle, and creating refuge islands would be an incredible cost (worth it everywhere imo, but that's not happening).

I once asked Becky Katz, who used to head the pedestrian unit in transportation services, why the city doesn't have two/multi stage crossings, and her answer was people hate them, and that creates an obstacle at the city. It stunned me because when I've used them in Europe I think they're amazing and feel much safer, but they're often configured to have people only cross one or two lanes at a time. The one people here know is at Queen and University where you're crossing 4 lanes on each side of the refuge, so I guess it's not surprising that when that's your image of a two/multi stage crossing, you dislike it.
Click to expand...
The ionic thing is this city did install a two stage crossing at Eglinton and Solane. So they know it exists.

I don’t know how long it will take for them to install it for every intersection and how difficult it is to install it for crossings without a station platform. First, they’ll have to acknowledge that they need a two stage crossing which itself is a hurdle.
 
urbanclient said:
I don't think they even know how transit signal priority works in Toronto like @reaperexpress , much less elsewhere in North America, the Americas, Europe, or Asia...

Finch West Line 6 LRT

Who runs this city’s mundane traffic signals, Metrolinx or City Hall? I hope you can understand the confusion regarding who is responsible for the lack of strong active signal priority, (emphasis mine): "Supplementary Report: Congestion Management Plan - 2025 Update Date: April 22, 2025...
urbantoronto.ca urbantoronto.ca
Click to expand...
Yeah that was my conclusion as well so I wrote this blog post and sent a link to it to the TTC board:
https://ontariotrafficman.wordpress...checking-the-ttc-board-about-signal-priority/
 
Crossposting from the GO transit thread:
futurebound said:
Around 20 minutes to get from Highway 407 (3rd column) to Humber College (4th column). So, yes. Faster to go up to Highway 407 from Finch West and take this bus to Humber College than to take Line 6.

1765424026400.png
Click to expand...
 
Just convert it to BRT and run articulated buses on the finch tracks instead of LRV vehicles, so that way they dont need to follow the BS streetcar rules such as needing to slow down at intersections. The buses can also accelerate faster than the LRVs. These changes will make the line go faster compared to now. 3 billion dollars for a BRT line sounds expensive but the TTC can probably recoup some of the cost by selling all their Citradis Spirits cheaply back to alstom and then buy some buses to run the BRT. Lets make lemonade and be done with this.
 
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