[Monarch Butterfly]

This is from the Supplementary Report: Congestion Management Plan - 2025 Update dated April, 2025.

TSP on Line 5 Eglinton and Line 6 Finch West

Line 5 Eglinton and Line 6 Finch are being delivered by Metrolinx, and as specified in the project agreements between Metrolinx and its constructors, TSP has been installed at all intersections on the at-grade sections of Line 5 and Line 6. Specifically, TSP is installed on the Line 5 surface segment on Eglinton Avenue from east of Laird Station to Kennedy Station; and on Line 6, TSP is installed on the surface segment between Humber College and Finch West Station.

The LRT lines implement Conditional TSP whereby priority is only given when vehicles are behind schedule to help schedule adherence and maintain service reliability. The amount of extension provided varies by time of day based on the available time that can be taken from other movements. Conditional TSP on the LRT lines achieves the following:
• helps maintain schedule adherence LRT operations and helps minimize bunching on the transit lines;
• maintains safety for pedestrians, ensuring that there is sufficient opportunity to allow pedestrians to safely cross the street and board transit; and,
• balances coordination between both east-west and north south transit transfers which will allow customers to safely transfer between bus routes and the LRTs.

The responsibility of TSP design and commissioning currently rests with Metrolinx until Line 5 and 6 are completed. Once the two lines are complete, and hand-over of the new lines has occurred, the City of Toronto Transportation Services and the TTC will continue to refine TSP strategies through the Train Operating Funding Agreement and Train Operating Services Agreement, including looking at any appropriate opportunity for unconditional TSP, to provide customers with fast and reliable service on the new LRT lines.

So TSP will only happen should a light rail train be behind schedule. In other words, the trains are slow because they are ON SCHEDULE.

Am I reading that right?

 

[ARG1]

This is from the Supplementary Report: Congestion Management Plan - 2025 Update dated April, 2025.





So TSP will only happen should a light rail train be behind schedule. In other words, the trains are slow because they are ON SCHEDULE.

Am I reading that right?

It would be an interesting loophole to just increase the scheduled times for the train so that TSP is always on.

 

[JSF-1]

New video is up. This is one of 2 I will be making on the topic of the Finch West LRT. This one is the standard historic look at the line (as you probably expect from my videos), while the next one will be an unscripted opinion piece just giving my thoughts on the route after having ridden it (I'll probably just end up repeating much of what has been said in this thread).

 

[dob467]

Sorry, but... Are we supposed to count how many atatements in that video are factually incorrect?

How about you just tell us two falsehoods?

 

[Rainforest]

This seems perfectly reasonable if the trains on the surface were running at a consistent speed, but they won't be. Sometimes they'll be stopped at a redlight for several minutes. Does that means all trains in the tunnel will just extend their dwell times to compensate?

Those delays should be averaged out. The "average" surface section speed already includes the delays at traffic lights.

 

[nfitz]

Technically they are the same entity

Technically the city and province are the same entity - yet they sue each other. And look at how much Toronto Hydro screws over City of Toronto construction projects - despite being 100% owned by the City.

The reality is, the TTC operators still need to familiarize themselves with these new trains before they can feel comfortable operating them at 60 km/h without incident.

After years of operating them already? If they weren't ready, it shouldn't have opened. The bad press from this (which I don't think has barely scratched the surface yet), could be epic.

 

[abovegrade]

Anyone riding today at rush hour? I'm curious how busy it is.

 

[yurt2022]

That's why theres the turnback switch at Laird. There's going to be a branching of services with the Scarborough portion getting the short end of the stick.

There's no doubt that the underground trains will be slowed down by at-grade trains. Otherwise we'll see bunching up of eastbound trains around the tunnel portal.

 

[goodcitywhenfinished]

Council decided not to enable full signal priority years ago. Last year a motion was brought to council to look at enabling it again and they were supposed to get a report beck a few months ago but its been radio silence. City council also has the power to enable better transit signal priority on several bus corridors and on eglinton.

And everyone’s favourite city department - transportation services - is doing the report.

Aka the people that live and die by total vehicle throughput rather than any kind of vehicle throughput metric weighted by passengers. Generally known to be one of the most change resistant departments in the city.

 

[yurt2022]

And everyone’s favourite city department - transportation services - is doing the report.

Aka the people that live and die by total vehicle throughput rather than any kind of vehicle throughput metric weighted by passengers. Generally known to be one of the most change resistant departments in the city.

Can everyone stop yapping about TSP when that isn't even the biggest issue this line faces?

When Metrolinx/Mosaic were testing the line, they utilized full design speed and were able to have much lower travel times with the same TSP settings we have now.

I don't want to be sitting in a train with TSP at an average speed of 10 km/h.

The TTC needs to be put under fire for its terrible operating procedures. The line could be improved tomorrow if they just drove faster and reduced unnecessarily long dwell times.

 

[Bojaxs]

That's why theres the turnback switch at Laird. There's going to be a branching of services with the Scarborough portion getting the short end of the stick.

I'm only finding out about this now. Something tells me a lot of posters on this thread are unaware of this as well.

Metrolinx wouldn't have built this in if they didn't think underground trains catching up to surface levels trains was going to be an issue.

 

[ssiguy2]

One of the many things that should piss people off about this line is that, by the way it is set up, it is more expensive to run.

They could easily cut these travel times in half by complete transit priority having the trains stop ONLY at stations and then can automatically proceed. Maintaining the 6 minute frequency, would mean that for every 1 trip made currently, they could make 2 and cut the staff by 50%. All this from the TTC and City who say they are starved for transit funding.

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

After years of operating them already? If they weren't ready, it shouldn't have opened. The bad press from this (which I don't think has barely scratched the surface yet), could be epic.

TTC operators HAVE NOT been operating them for years... the first class were only trained to operate them this year about a month or two before RSD even started and the second class only finished training last week.

 

[crs1026]

Can everyone stop yapping about TSP when that isn't even the biggest issue this line faces?

When Metrolinx/Mosaic were testing the line, they utilized full design speed and were able to have much lower travel times with the same TSP settings we have now.

I don't want to be sitting in a train with TSP at an average speed of 10 km/h.

The TTC needs to be put under fire for its terrible operating procedures. The line could be improved tomorrow if they just drove faster and reduced unnecessarily long dwell times.

Fair enough, sort of.... but from my observation there is a very clear practice forming of coasting when the light ahead isn't favourable. If they tell the operators to speed it up, they can easily go faster and will reach the intersection sooner - but then be held just as long. It's just so obvious that the tram is not maintaining speed because the light ahead is red.
And the slow entry to platforms is the result of stopping at the red.....with TSP they can maintain full speed most of the way thru the intersection before braking. Not much point in flooring it from a stop upon getting the green, only to have to brake again. Again, it's obvious they are plodding because they are getting stopped at intersections.
Cutting a few seconds from dwell and post-stop startup will shave a couple of minutes over the length of a run, but clearing the lights might shave a dozen.

- Paul

 

[Northern Light]

Can everyone stop yapping about TSP when that isn't even the biggest issue this line faces?

People are posting, in good faith, for the most part, based on their experience and knowledge, which is informed, in part, by past experience on other TTC routes, where TSP is claimed, but the route does not operate in a manner that suggests this is true.

Is the TSP here the only factor in its speed of operation? No. Absolutely not.

Is TTC SOP playing a role here, for sure!

But I'm disinclined to dismiss the TSP issues as trivial.

If a tram is sitting at red lights frequently or for extended waits, then those doing the programing of the TSP are simply not doing their job to an appropriate or acceptable standard.

But I digress.

Also playing parts here are at least one or two more stops than would be ideal; and apparently a technically absurd design of curved track in the Humber College Portal/Tunnel that requires entirely unreasonable speed restrictions.

***

I have it on good authority, neither the Mayor's Office, nor the Premier's are pleased by the reception here and negative media coverage. How they will respond, remains to be seen.

Collectively, we need to keep the pressure on everyone here, from the TTC to Mx, from the Mayor to the Minister to make clear this performance is not acceptable and must not be allowed to continue.