[thommyjo]

The push for single family speaks perfectly to the Albertan/Canadian/North American obsession with progress for the sake of progress. Had this entire neighbourhood been done as SFH it would probably be complete already… but then what? We would have had another nondescript neighbourhood like EVERY other neighbourhood. Sure we can pat ourselves on the back for expediting the completion, but have absolutely nothing to show for it. Building something of value takes time. Everyone bitches and complains. That everything going up in Edmonton is crap, and then when we try to build something of value, say that we should have just put up the crap instead because it’s faster. Wtf

A bit simplistic to suggest all SFHs or new suburbs are “crap” and that everything in blatchford is somehow a magical step above. Much of what’s been build, aside from a few designs, are pretty typical home styles seen throughout Edmonton.

“But then what?” You ask? Well…

- 20,000 new residents:
1) within useable distance of an LRT and surrounded by bike lanes
2) within minutes of downtown and 124th, increasing the success potential of local businesses and main streets
3) thousands of new students for nearby schools that are under capacity, while reducing strain on new suburbs that have 20+ portables. And many of those students would be able to walk/bike more than in our communities.
4) reduced sprawl, congestion, and wear on roads
5) increased vibrancy in core areas, which can help to reduce crime as well

There is definitely a cost and opportunity cost to blatchford, exhibition, and many of our other projects moving slowly while we rapidly build and sprawl outwards.

Excuses like covid sure didn’t hurt sales of new SFHs, duplexes, townhomes, condos in new suburbs.

Imo we need to see the supply of new housing units in central areas as both in competition with new suburbs and vital to our city’s success. 50% of our population will soon live outside the henday…. How will that bode for our downtown, transit use, biking, emissions, traffic, main streets, festivals, etc?

 

[Coprolite]

The push for single family speaks perfectly to the Albertan/Canadian/North American obsession with progress for the sake of progress. Had this entire neighbourhood been done as SFH it would probably be complete already… but then what? We would have had another nondescript neighbourhood like EVERY other neighbourhood. Sure we can pat ourselves on the back for expediting the completion, but have absolutely nothing to show for it. Building something of value takes time. Everyone bitches and complains. That everything going up in Edmonton is crap, and then when we try to build something of value, say that we should have just put up the crap instead because it’s faster. Wtf

Oh, it would NOT be done by now, given the extent of demolition and landscape remediation that had to be done for this project, and the additional infrastructure installation required for the district heating plant. It would be built to approximately the same extent (unless District heating were also removed), but with a different mix of houses (and either less of them, or smaller, skinnier ones on what are already rather narrow lot lines).

Demolition is still very much ongoing and nothing about that process would go faster with a different housing type, let alone remediation, subsurface infrastructure, rough grade or paving. The folks who come in here and drool out "guys, if we made SFH's it would sell homes faster" even though there's been no actual problem with selling freehold townhomes just aren't actually remotely engaging with reality.

 

[Coprolite]

Excuses like covid sure didn’t hurt sales of new SFHs, duplexes, townhomes, condos in new suburbs.

It didn't hurt sales here either. It certainly hurt CONSTRUCTION absolutely everywhere though.

Like when we were looking at the start of 2023, pretty much everything that was built was sold. Landmark was sold out and selling their next build. Encore was selling houses in various stages of construction. Crimson Cove had nothing available. Even Mutti was in the process of selling its last units. Only Carbon Busters was in the position of having a surplus of units because their units are very weird and their finances are kind of dodgy and they literally froze construction and are kind of shrugging their shoulders about when they'll ever complete and that would not remotely be fixed by them being SFH's.

I am not sure where people get the idea that homes here are not or have not been selling, because it is completely unsupported on the ground. It's pretend.

 

[thommyjo]

Like when we were looking at the start of 2023, pretty much everything that was built was sold. Landmark was sold out and selling their next build. Encore was selling houses in various stages of construction. Crimson Cove had nothing available. Even Mutti was in the process of selling its last units. Only Carbon Busters was in the position of having a surplus of units because their units are very weird and their finances are kind of dodgy and they literally froze construction and are kind of shrugging their shoulders about when they'll ever complete and that would not remotely be fixed by them being SFH's.

I am not sure where people get the idea that homes here are not or have not been selling, because it is completely unsupported on the ground. It's pretend.

Are there not 6 parcels of land, right around the main traffic circle that was completed 7 years ago, that are designated for medium density? And 0/7 of those have seen any movement on construction. In 2022 there was an attempt to pre-sell condos for 1 of them. It didn’t happen I’m assuming. Meanwhile thousands of condo units and apartment units have been sold and rented in new suburbs.

And we have dozen of other parcels for medium and high density that will need to be sold and built in the blatchford plans. I’m unsure if there will be demand for those.

And we’ve mostly only seen a few dozen townhomes come available for sale each year. So I’m not surprised those can sell. But if we start building 100-200 per year, will demand keep up? I hope so. Cause we need to start seeing hundreds of units built and sold every year to get anywhere close to original plans in the next 20 years.

You can criticize the streetwise townhomes, which are like 20% sold after months of them being listed. But they’re easily selling hundreds of those in new suburbs, so idk, I think that’s telling. (5/26 sold in blatchford vs 42/52 in summerwood or 125/139 in secord)

And it seems like these resale homes have been up for a while?
- 115 days on market
- 111 days on market

 

[Coprolite]

Are there not 6 parcels of land, right around the main traffic circle that was completed 7 years ago, that are designated for medium density? And 0/7 of those have seen any movement on construction. In 2022 there was an attempt to pre-sell condos for 1 of them. It didn’t happen I’m assuming. Meanwhile thousands of condo units and apartment units have been sold and rented in new suburbs.

And we have dozen of other parcels for medium and high density that will need to be sold and built in the blatchford plans. I’m unsure if there will be demand for those.

And we’ve mostly only seen a few dozen townhomes come available for sale each year. So I’m not surprised those can sell. But if we start building 100-200 per year, will demand keep up? I hope so. Cause we need to start seeing hundreds of units built and sold every year to get anywhere close to original plans in the next 20 years.

You can criticize the streetwise townhomes, which are like 20% sold after months of them being listed. But they’re easily selling hundreds of those in new suburbs, so idk, I think that’s telling. (5/26 sold in blatchford vs 42/52 in summerwood or 125/139 in secord)

And it seems like these resale homes have been up for a while?
- 115 days on market
- 111 days on market

You aren't actually making a point, except that you think that through the magic of not listening or comprehending, 4+ story buildings should already be sold, because brownfield redevelopment should work exactly like the misunderstandings you've accumulated about greenfield development.

You're actually defeating your point that for some reason a more suburban model would work better, by coming back to the Streetside townhomes. Yes, it turns out that if you copy and paste the sort of thing that sells in the suburbs. I'm not sure why you think pointing out over and over that "huh Streetside sells very well in the suburbs but it doesn't sell here" when everything else that's been completed has does any credit to your premise, especially when the condo complex right next door is absolutely eating their lunch by offering better units and underground parking. Gee, it really says something that a lazy, grunted out design which sells like hot cakes out in Fauntleroy-upon-Henday doesn't sell as well in a completely different context where it's surrounded by much better options which highlight everything bad about the design.

Your listings are dead links, but I wouldn't expect it to be easy to re-sell a house when very similar houses are being built new mere blocks away and the buyer gets a new home warranty and the ability to customize their build if they choose the latter.

 

[whattheheck]

^I'm sorry. The response above sounds like a bunch of gibberish. You have a clear bias. That shows. The problem is you're not even willing to consider a compromise.

What would be wrong with some narrow SFH's in Blatchford? Nothing. It would be a another option, drive further market interest, etc etc. There have been no suggestions to turn Blatchford into an 80/ 90's community, with front drive garage homes.

But you refuse to budge in your opinion and post nonsense to sound holier-than-thou.

 

[Coprolite]

^I'm sorry. The response above sounds like a bunch of gibberish. You have a clear bias. That shows. The problem is you're not even willing to consider a compromise.

What would be wrong with some narrow SFH's in Blatchford? Nothing. It would be a another option, drive further market interest, etc etc. There have been no suggestions to turn Blatchford into an 80/ 90's community, with front drive garage homes.

But you refuse to budge in your opinion and post nonsense to sound holier-than-thou.

I appreciate the massive accidental irony here.

 

[chrisvazquez7]

When I bought my townhome in Blatchford, I was buying into a specific vision. If the city changes direction now, I will feel betrayed. I’m sure I wouldn’t be the only one. This neighbourhood is supposed to be unique, developed in a way no other neighbourhood in Edmonton is. The pace of development is getting faster and I think is just fine for what we’re getting in the long run.

 

[CplKlinger]

I think adding even just a few single-detached homes could be a net-loss for Blatchford. They're objectively less energy efficient than townhomes due to having more walls exposed to the elements, but there wouldn't be much benefit to that since the townhomes are already selling well, as noted previously. Sure, there's probably people who would only live there if they could be in a SDH, but that's not the market Blatchford needs to hit next. It needs multi-storey apartment and condo buildings, and SDHs won't help with that.

 

[Whatup]

Alright then, sure. The people who live in a neighbourhood have an impact on it's culture and diverse backgrounds and experiences are important, I agree.

So tell me, why should most people be pushed by the development industry and market to live in boring and soulless suburban neighbourhoods which, at their core, don't serve the human-ness of people? My answer is yes, these neighbourhoods are all nondescript and alike in their mundanity, and that makes it all the more tragic that they're the standard. Blatchford could take 100 years to build out and it will still be significantly better in it's character and human scale than any NSP in Stillwater or Ellerslie or Horse Hill.

The supply chains and practices of the greenfield development industry need to be altered so suburbia can be more like Blatchford, not the other way around. That's how you make a city which better serves the diverse and interesting people which live in it.

By calling suburban neighbourhoods "boring and soulless" you show your bias. Its soulless and boring to you for various reasons but not to the millions of people that live in these types of places. Often in my travels I've found that the places that you'd think wouldn't have much character have loads of character under the surface. You calling these places "tragic" is hilarious - I'd wager many people find Portland and San Fransciso and Vancouver tragic as well. Who are you to judge if a suburb has significantly less character than Blatchford. I"d better move to Blatchford so I will instantly have more character, think the "right way" and be a socially responsible progressive citizen. Doesn't all this nonsense get exhausting? Do you really believe all this BS?

 

[Whatup]

I've lived in apartments for so long now that I like them and would not live in the suburbs if given a choice. Also, I have always driven small cars because I don't like or need an SUV or truck. However, I don't look down on the suburbs and the people who live in them and don't think they are "soulless" and lack "value". I appreciate projects like Blatchford and find the pictures on this forum fascinating and I am interested to see how it turns out. But too many posters on here for some reason like to take unwarranted pot-shots at suburbia and by extension the folks that live there and this elitist posing nonsense gets old and isn't needed.

 

[Gronk!]

I have a feeling that Blatchford development will become a municipal election issue.

 

[whattheheck]

The other sad reality of Blatchford is, despite all its green hype, it is not as green as it could be. For the city to drop the ball on on how the land is oriented in what was a blank slate. The entire community should be built on the net-zero foundation, which it is not:

'In northern (colder) climates, the long axis of the home should run in an east-west direction, allowing for maximum solar gain on the south facing side.'

Basics of Site Selection for Net Zero Homes - Zero Energy Project

Every day, Net Zero Energy buildings make the news. Homeowners, commercial building owners, developers, architects and builders are all becoming more aware of the potential of Net Zero Energy buildings. And every day, there are more resources on design specs, products, and innovative ideas to...

zeroenergyproject.com

A simple concept lost, due to the bogging down of bureaucrats, politicians, armchair urban planners etc etc. at the taxpayers expense.

 

[Coprolite]

By calling suburban neighbourhoods "boring and soulless" you show your bias. Its soulless and boring to you for various reasons but not to the millions of people that live in these types of places. Often in my travels I've found that the places that you'd think wouldn't have much character have loads of character under the surface. You calling these places "tragic" is hilarious - I'd wager many people find Portland and San Fransciso and Vancouver tragic as well. Who are you to judge if a suburb has significantly less character than Blatchford. I"d better move to Blatchford so I will instantly have more character, think the "right way" and be a socially responsible progressive citizen. Doesn't all this nonsense get exhausting? Do you really believe all this BS?

Thinking they are not boring and soulless (and embody freedom and connection to nature or whatever) is also a bias. As is any preference with regards to housing.

Shockingly, the natural market for infill or brownfield development in inner city neighbourhoods is folks whose biases don't favour the suburbs. Meanwhile, those who have pro-suburban biases are oh so amply catered to.

 

[Coprolite]

I have a feeling that Blatchford development will become a municipal election issue.

That, unfortunately, is the greatest issue of Blatchford. Canada Lands Corp's biggest advantage in the development of Griesbach is that it had the luxury of just ignoring all of the folks who were at that weird intersection of having deeply passionate opinions while simultaneously having zero motivation to actually learn anything about what they were doing or how anything even works. They had the advantage of more experience with redeveloping hazardous sites to create interesting neighbourhoods, but it would have been a lot harder for cranks to derail things or even mobilize against them. They could ultimately proceed at a methodical pace without a bunch of pressure do everything faster for vibes, even if it meant things going quite slow for the first decade while builders resolved their various tantrums about things like architectural standards

I suspect that whatever happens will be okay, because it's land zoned for density next to a major post secondary institution and mass transit infrastructure, and given time, something okay will happen. But all of the MAKE THINGS GO FASTER WITH SFH's/privatization/magic beans people can certainly make it go much slower and burn a huge amount of work that they can't/refuse to see.