The_Cat
Senior Member
When the Oilers were in the Stanley Cup playoffs, it was nice to see fans cheering in various venues downtown. It was also good to see the focus taken off the social disorder. Why are we afraid of offending these people?
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- Thread starter Stevey_G
- Start date
ADob
Active Member
As always, it is good to hear a balanced and nuanced take. But you have to also realise that those of us who live downtown and experience the garbage, name-calling, tweaking, and assorted antisocial behaviour on the daily are just tired. I used to be a bleeding heart myself, but simply put, my compassion has run out. And I absolutely hate that it's happened. It sucks to no longer care about people who are clearly suffering. But there it is. I am now just pissed when I see garbage strewn about while a bent over zombie stands in the middle of the sidewalk I'm trying to navigate safely. What you hear, at least in my case, is simple, long-standing frustration.
I think for us the turning point was the encampment two blocks from our place. Being bombarded by a. the shrapnel, garbage, endless disruption on the one hand and b. the constant performative woke (and I am pretty damn left-leaning!!!) refusal to accept the lived experience of the people around the area was what finally broke me. No, I don't want "these people" shipped off god knows where, and obviously I want them to get clean, housed, employed, taken care of in some way. Of course I do. BUT: I also want to be able to live in my city without the ongoing garbage, overt drug use, and screaming fits we get exposed to here every damn day. I cannot stress how much over it I am.
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SarcasticMarmot
Active Member
I totally get that, and I feel it as well. Feeling compassion fatigue is completely reasonable, we are all so done with it. I live just outside of downtown and my building's parkade was just broken into again on Monday and my car window smashed. I get the anger, and I get the frustration. This summer I am leaving social services for the next few years in part because I am burnt out. I agree that my sector often fails to listen to those impacted by struggling folks. I don't agree it was performative woke so much as the fact we often develop a battle mentality as a survival tool which can be very destructive. I apologize on our behalf that you were not heard and I respect that. One of many things I wish we did better.
What I don't understand is how the narrative of needing to "stop holding their hands" and "start enforcing" is taking hold as if it were something new we haven't tried. That is exactly what we have been doing, more and more of, over the last 5 years and what has directly led to the increase in social disorder. Despite the hysteria, we have not defunded the police, we have actually increased their funding. What we have defunded is frontline social services. I'm not anti-effective policing or even mandatory treatment (if done well). We are 6 years into the "recovery" and enforcement focused model and do things seem better to anyone?
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TAS
Senior Member
Another vacant old home for sale for a couple of years torched.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/edmonton/article/fire-reported-at-old-house-overlooking-river-valley/
https://www.ctvnews.ca/edmonton/article/fire-reported-at-old-house-overlooking-river-valley/
TAS
Senior Member
Thanks also for this persepctive.
Maybe we need an enough is enough rally. Take it from churchill to the Leg. Edmonton can't cope with more unhoused people getting dropped off here from other places. Or people released here from the multitude of correctional facilities around here and other parts of the province with nowhere to go. And all the disorder that follows. People are reaching a boiling point, but maybe it is going to require public action to get more government action and support for this city to manage this.
Oilguy
Active Member
Thanks so much for your work and perspective. It’s easy to get lost in a lot of this that many of the people in dire straits are full on victims of many traumatic things that are just inhumane. Doesn’t mean we are bad people for being frustrated.
Reality is the path forward is hard, and governments don’t do hard enough things well. We need to move upstream and help vulnerable youth avoid getting on this path, we need to provide way, way more supportive options for those ready to escape the terrible lives they are leading. We need to punish severely the dealers and gangs pushing these awful drugs on people. We need police, social workers, mental health people walking our streets connecting with people and ending intolerable behaviour. We need more investment and people downtown. We need bail reform, support for indigenous communities. Drop ins, transition housing, etc, etc. . We need all levels of government more committed to solving the problem then scoring political points,
See the problem is no one thing fixes this, and I have yet to see the type of leadership that might put together a multi faceted, multi level plan that would see our way out of this,
And before we loath on Edmonton for all of this being unique, google what is going on in Victoria right now.
thommyjo
Senior Member
I think part of the challenge is that many of the North American cities that have taken the “housing first” “safe supply” “drug decriminalization” etc policy approaches have failed to improve their situations. For most, they have worsened. So I think the trust in social services (which are not all the same in their approaches and services of course) has dropped due to this. Especially as these agencies have been the primary proponents behind efforts like safe injection sites near schools and daycares that have clearly gone poorly. Or supportive housing in neighborhoods that has greatly increased crime. Or being all ACAB in attitude, yet people feel unsafe on transit and have no one to protect them from criminals because of pressure to shift bylaws to not have such a heavy handed approach.
I think most people frustrated about the state of things aren’t arguing against day shelters, social workers partnering with police to respond to calls, more housing with differing levels of support, etc. I think people are frustrated by 1) more extreme approaches that have hurt innocent residents (safe injection sites) 2) a lack of results 3) condescension or dismissal of legitimate concerns being raised and 4) the cost of all of this.
Whatup
Active Member
Very good points. Also, many Social Services focus too much on victimization and the belief that addicts are a product of their unfortunate backgrounds, environments etc. Most citizens have empathy but also need to know law and order is being enforced and respected. Many addicts are breaking laws repeatedly and there needs to be accountability and law enforcement and increasingly the need for mandatory treatment and rehab. It's a very slippery slope when the government starts allowing people to not be held accountable for lawlessness due to mitigating factors.
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Gronk!
Senior Member
City of Victoria pledges over $10M for public safety following violent long weekend
$3.5M to be spent on bylaw and police enforcement
Oilguy
Active Member
And to my point, it’s a reactionary measure that will probably have some short term impact but wont move the needle on the underlying issues. Doesn’t mean they are making a bad choice, just that it’s another city struggling with similar problems and having to throw resources at problems they don’t necessarily create or control the source of.
Whatup
Active Member
"Safe Supply" and injection sites near schools, etc etc. Complete lunacy in BC and still too many people there are either oblivious, in denial or continue to place ideology over pragmatic solutions. Victimization takes precedence over the concerns of law abiding tax payers, business that are trying to generate wealth and pay taxes to better their communities. It's complete madness. Also, Judges that live in a ideological fantasyland that know better then the citizens they lord over. BC has always been a little crazy but the NDP has taken it to a new level. How average folks in Victoria and Vancouver continue to vote for political parties that support this madness is crazy - people get the government they voted for so I guess they will need to continue to adapt to the reality they helped create. At least Alberta is trying involuntary rehab and won't do the "Safe Supply" madness.
Oilguy
Active Member
It’s also a very slippery slope when that same government doesn’t provide the services it should to help abrogate some of the issues, and then criminalizes the outcomes. Accountability runs both ways and the lack of mental health support as one example.
We can arrest all the people we want, the courts and prisons are bursting already. They will be right back out. I am not saying don’t enforce laws, we should step things up for sure, but any suggestion it solves this problem is not realistic.
NicolBolas
New Member
The constant victim mentality people have now is pathetic. Many of these people are victims are of their own stupid choices in life. This is like saying people who smoke cigarettes are in a mental health crisis, I don't buy the semantic slight of hand.
I feel sorry for the business owners who risked it all to open something in Chinatown or downtown who now have to close their shops because of the city's refusal to deal with social disorder because of they are too morally above that. I don't feel sorry for the 0.0003% of the population of this city that wants to blame all their problems on somebody else.
itom987
Active Member
Cops throw drunk people in drunk tanks, then they should also throw people that are high in drug tanks. Bottom line is, nobody wants to see people under the influence in public places.
Oilguy
Active Member
Yeesh, empathy level set to zero. That’s like saying someone getting cancer is a victim of their stupid choices in life. Right out of the Danielle Smith school of medicine. Yes, some of what you say is true, but mental illness is a real thing, not a stupid choice somebody makes, and the lack of available affordable support for them is also not a choice.
We can walk and chew gum at the same time.