ssiguy2
Senior Member
I hope Carney sticks to his word when he said he wanted HSR from QC to Windsor and not just to Union.
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- Thread starter innsertnamehere
- Start date
Metroscapes
Active Member
This is hilarious because while not fully clear in an over-simplified diagram, this has been my alignment thinking for improving southwestern Ontario rail transport since over 12 years ago.
Northern Light
Superstar
From the presentation to the City the other day...........a noteworthy passing comment..........suggesting the proposed build is 1,000km of double-track.
The route is roughly 1,000km (Toronto to Quebec City) so that doesn't leave much room for misinterpretation.
@reaperexpress and @Urban Sky will have thoughts.
Two dedicated tracks won't be overly controversial for the CPKC mid-town trackage, but two an additional two-track bridge across the West Don Valley is no small undertaking.
This would also be impactful in the lower Don.
The route is roughly 1,000km (Toronto to Quebec City) so that doesn't leave much room for misinterpretation.
@reaperexpress and @Urban Sky will have thoughts.
Two dedicated tracks won't be overly controversial for the CPKC mid-town trackage, but two an additional two-track bridge across the West Don Valley is no small undertaking.
This would also be impactful in the lower Don.
nfitz
Superstar
Will it? I wouldn't be surprised if the existing 1-track bridge is replaced by a much more slender, structually advanced, concrete 2-track bridge.
I think it may well be less visually intrusive as the existing bridge!
I wonder if they'd build to add a third or fourth track later for potential GO services. Imagine services on this line with stations at Broadview and/or Brickworks, Sunnydale Park, Brimley, Malvern, etc.
Compare to the modern 2-track structure for the REM in Montreal. Those columns are far less intrusive, with the spans perhaps further apart.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
I wouldn’t count on ALTO taking the Don Branch to get to Agincourt Yard…
Northern Light
Superstar
Where would you assume it would run?
Urban Sky
Senior Member
If I was ALTO, I would try to hit the most important transit hub in Eastern Toronto:
bearcat
Active Member
what is the most important transit hub in Eastern Toronto? the map you posted doesn't make it obvious...
do you mean Kennedy subway station?
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crs1026
Superstar
Union Station.
We are going to build a HSR line, but have it stop almost in sight of the downtown terminus, in a depot whose design hasn't to date implied any provision for HSR?
I can construct an interesting conspiracy theory about ML pausing construction of the West Highland Creek bridge, and also pausing the proposed flyunder at Scarborough Jct, and not advancing double track from Scarborough Jct to Kennedy....intending to let HSR pick up the tab for these things..... but I can't reconcile that routing with the necessary curvature and scheduling....
Which is not to say that @Urban Sky 's knowledgeable take on the matter is off base. I just think the Don Branch is more elegant, no pricier, and any benefit from the alternative routing being hinted at is not mission critical.
- Paul
micheal_can
Senior Member
I am thinking he means Kennedy. However, since ALTO's official route map only shows Union and Peterborough,he is speaking in terms of fantasy.
bearcat
Active Member
Yes lol, I got the same conspiracy theory vibes wrt the Highland Creek bridge and pausing the flyunder, but I thought it's too crazy to post my thoughts. The way I understood the post is the suggestion that HSR stop at Kennedy subway station on the way from Union to the Agincourt Yard. Not that it would stop at the yard. So HSR would follow the Stouffville line until the Highland Creek bridge and then there could be curve at the bridge to connect to the current freight line.
@Urban Sky is that what you meant?
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sche
Active Member
I've always thought any HSR using the Don branch to get into Toronto made little sense. Those lines are much better suited to local service, and putting high speed trains on those lines severely limits their use for local trains as only two passenger tracks will fit.
I would use LSE up to Ajax, then build new tracks roughly next to the 412/Lake Ridge Rd up to the Havelock Sub (or wherever the HSR alignment is)
There's lots of advantages to this:
- Does not use any lines which would be better used for local service, and few conflicts with local trains
- Avoids building the big bridges over the Don
- Synergistic with GO LSE electrification, track improvements etc.
- HSR trains can stop at Scarborough Jct and/or Pickering which are probably better than Agincourt
- If/when HSR services cause too much of a problem with local LSE services, the corridor can be expanded to four tracks fairly easily with some fairly small structures plus some realignment of the GO or CN tracks and/or 401 ramps in Ajax. Then, HSR would only share tracks with express services, which due to high average speeds much closer to HSR and lower frequency would be fairly straightforward to timetable. Express services would only make ~2 extra stops than the HSR, which combined with longer dwell times for HSR would result in very similar average speeds, and therefore high capacity utilization.
I would use LSE up to Ajax, then build new tracks roughly next to the 412/Lake Ridge Rd up to the Havelock Sub (or wherever the HSR alignment is)
There's lots of advantages to this:
- Does not use any lines which would be better used for local service, and few conflicts with local trains
- Avoids building the big bridges over the Don
- Synergistic with GO LSE electrification, track improvements etc.
- HSR trains can stop at Scarborough Jct and/or Pickering which are probably better than Agincourt
- If/when HSR services cause too much of a problem with local LSE services, the corridor can be expanded to four tracks fairly easily with some fairly small structures plus some realignment of the GO or CN tracks and/or 401 ramps in Ajax. Then, HSR would only share tracks with express services, which due to high average speeds much closer to HSR and lower frequency would be fairly straightforward to timetable. Express services would only make ~2 extra stops than the HSR, which combined with longer dwell times for HSR would result in very similar average speeds, and therefore high capacity utilization.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
All of that can also be achieved (at much lower cost!) by stopping at Kennedy…
nfitz
Superstar
That would have worked under the original Line 4 plan, where it dipped south and hit the proposed Kennedy station near the tracks - but the current plan is to just run straight along Sheppard to Sheppard East station.
Sauga89
Active Member
An HSR station at Sheppard and McCowan would have almost as many connections as Kennedy if/when the Sheppard extension is built. You could connect to Lines 2 and 4, and the Midtown line if CP agrees to share its track, and perhaps eastward GO connections towards Pickering as well. There wouldn't be a northern connection, but there could be buses (and I think there's potential for a busway north of Sheppard/McCowan.)