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Montreal-Ottawa as the first phase is somewhat politically toxic (won't help with popular perceptions of Liberal favoritism), but can be resolved by having the Ottawa-Toronto line be the next phase.

Well, any plan that does not do Montreal-Quebec as the first iteration will have toxic repercussions. But.... Montreal- Ottawa implies a fair bit of investment within Montreal, and construction and staffing of the initial maintenance base in central Montreal also. Perhaps some long-lead civil works could be added also so that the spend in Quebec is enough to make noise about..

- Paul
 
PS - California can be differentiated from Alto in that CHSR had to select an entire route from scratch. Most of its foibles (so far) accrue from route selection and land acquisition - and not actual construction.
For Alto, the route is mostly defined and much less controversial, with far less expropriation and acquisition required. (Yeah, I know, Ottawa is quite capable of screwing up the 60 miles of route selection through almost virgin Canadian Shield forests...... but that is far smaller a project than CHSR)
That difference alone may give Alto a chance towards a better outcome.

- Paul
 
Why? Because we don't have any experience building that kind of infrastructure. The same thing happened with grade-separated LRTs in Ontario.

What is so special about grade separated LRTs that we don't have experience building that type of infrastructure? The project is composed of a subway-like and a streetcar-like section, both of which the TTC has been building and operating for over 100 years.

The reason why the Crossrown went wrong is because Metrolinx is building it.
 
There’s no reason why Canada must copy every mistake that CHSR has made (sadly, we will probably invent new ones)
The smartest way to proceed would be to select one segment (Montreal-Ottawa being an obvious starting point) and build it, while doing deaign work in parallel for other legs.

- Paul
If we assume a 2040 end date for the entire ALTO T-QC route,if they can do O-M first, but the rest is under construction, and opens by 2040, that may placate some political issues.
 
But the problem is that it is the only project that is being built to a similar set of regulatory requirements, in a similar geo-political environment.

There are lessons to be learned from other projects elsewhere around the world, sure, but California's the only one that comes close to being us.

Dan
Brightline West is another project in this category as well. They're aiming to open by the end of 2028.
 
Brightline West is another project in this category as well. They're aiming to open by the end of 2028.
not really. it barely stops in any populated areas. brightline west is weird, its more like a high-speed commuter service.
 
Brightline West is another project in this category as well. They're aiming to open by the end of 2028.
I'm not sure that you want to use any of Brightline's work as a comparison here. They certainly have been pretty bad at projections and timelines too - but in their case, their bad-ness was willfully done for the sake of trying to will investors into the project for their funding. (For instance, you may want to look back at some of the original projected timelines for Brightline West - it's not pretty.) This is not nearly as much of a problem for California's High Speed line or ALTO.

Dan
 
I'm extremely skeptical of Brightline West simply because from my occasional visits to LA, Rancho Cucamonga (remember the old Jack Benny routines?) seems like a suboptimal place to terminate.... leaving a big last-mile gap across the whole LA roadscape..

I don't have the insights to say what would work better (LAUPT is an obvious connecting point, but even it may be suboptimal) but clearly the message for us watching Alto is - the last mile matters, and demands very careful thought, and lots of data. Our cities have become road-based, and driving any new corridors through them for transit, and for intercity pax, is a very daunting obstacle.

But since most of my LA trips include excursions to Cajon Pass - it's gonna be fun seeing those trains in action.

- Paul
 
Interesting presentation about the prospects for Alto and other high speed rail projects in Canada.

 
Any chance the shovel hits the ground within the term of the Liberal Government? If not it runs the risk the next government may cancel it and we end up with another study.
 
Any chance the shovel hits the ground within the term of the Liberal Government? If not it runs the risk the next government may cancel it and we end up with another study.
Since this process is supposed to lat 5 years,it is doubtful that it will have shovels in the ground by October 15 2029, which is when the next election is scheduled for.. (unless it falls sooner)
 
Any chance the shovel hits the ground within the term of the Liberal Government? If not it runs the risk the next government may cancel it and we end up with another study.
Well Carney has spoken about expediting big projects in the national interest. Not sure if this project is included in that or if he's just focused on Pipelines, ports, etc.

Could they shorten the design and development phase from 5-6 years to 3 years and possibly put shovels in ground in 2029? Only time will tell.
 
You've got to think that Alto would qualify as one of Carney's nation building projects and that he'll be pressuring Minister of Transportation Freeland to show some tangible progress before the next election. Yes, the public statements say the Development Phase will take "around 5 years" but also that construction will occur in phases, so once the EA is complete, there's an opportunity to focus detailed design and land procurement on one of the sections and get started on construction ahead of 15-Oct-2029.
 

Some excerpts,

A federal Crown corporation paid more than $330,000 to an outside marketing firm to rebrand a planned passenger rail project between Toronto and Quebec City and boost its popularity.

Documents obtained by The Canadian Press detail how the corporation, concerned about “widespread disinterest” in a high-frequency rail corridor announced in 2021, decided to change its name and pivot to high-speed rail instead.

With the firm’s help, the corporation came up with a new logo and a new name – Alto – more than a year ago.

The rebranding was apparently so sensitive that the Crown corporation also chose a code name for Alto. Multiple documents, obtained using access-to-information law, refer to the new name as “Tracks".

The documents make clear that by the fall of 2023, however, the Crown corporation felt it needed to change course and scrap its original name — VIA HFR.

“The concept of ‘high frequency’ faces strong opposition. There’s widespread disinterest and dissatisfaction associated with the term, hindering any meaningful discussions and support. This resistance has become particularly challenging to navigate as the term ‘high frequency’ is directly embedded in the (corporation’s) name,” reads an undated briefing note written in late 2023 or early 2024.

It goes on to say that discussions of higher speed “are met with openness,” which would lead to “greater project support and acceptance.” It adds that the VIA HFR name should be changed early in the process, while the public’s awareness of the project is “relatively low.”

A presentation from the firm dating from December 2023 shows a list of “top 3” names under consideration at the time: Inter, XLR and Trax.

But none of those made the cut. An April 2024 presentation from VIA HFR shows the corporation had landed on Alto, which it said “embodies the project’s stronger focus on incorporating higher speeds and providing a higher level of service to Canadians.”

Alto also evokes “music and the train as catalysts for connection,” the presentation says, and is a “play on words with the train as an alternative way to travel.” The name also works in both official languages, it adds.

“Naming a national project of this scale goes beyond branding,” a spokesperson for Alto said in an email statement to The Canadian Press. “A strong, meaningful name anchors public support, reflects ambition, and shapes how Canadians will connect with the project for decades. It’s a sensitive process. We approached Alto’s naming with care, rigour, and a long-term vision.”

It’s not unusual for transit projects to get branding makeovers worth hundreds of thousands of dollars – nor is it uncommon for them to attract criticism. Last November, the Canadian Taxpayers Federation took issue with Saskatoon for spending $317,000 on a city bus rebrand. The city responded by saying the cost was in line with similar projects across the country.

Still, the switch to high speed clearly won over some important players. In an interview after Trudeau’s announcement in February, Quebec City Mayor Bruno Marchand said he was “very happy” with the decision, and called the high-frequency project “crap.”

An internal presentation from August 2024 cites public opinion research showing that people preferred a higher-speed rail line, despite the added cost. “We must continue to shift away from the high frequency narrative to keep the public and stakeholders engaged,” it reads.
 
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If such a trivial banality attracts such an exaggerated news coverage, then everything else must be going excelent at ALTO (which indeed needed a rebranding to distance itself from VIA and HFR, as it has nothing to do with either) and the news cycle must be really slow.

You got to pity the news reporters apparently getting pretty desperate for news stories these days…
 

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