[micheal_can]

Union is vital for the success of ALTO and for GO. What would be a better solution is less switches and dedicated tracks. In theory, you could assign each GO routes track.You assign each Via route a track. You then minimize the changes. This could allow better moments through the station. It may also allow for better passenger experience. A train should not be waiting just outside the station for another train to move.

 

[WB62]

I‘m not really sure what figures you are quoting here. There are only four different corridors to reach Union Station (Oakville, Weston, Bala and Kingston Subdivisions) and I fail to see how any of them could accommodate anything close to 40 trains per hour…

I quoted the service plans I had in front of me as I typed that. Though I am counting inbound and outbound as separate numbers, so it might be a little inflated if you wanna count that as one (at least for trains that run through as opposed to reversing out).

 

[Urban Sky]

Oh wow, I have not been keeping up with this thread enough it seems, a quick search gave me plenty of notes on why Summerhill doesnt work. Sorry to re-hash it and sorry if I triggered anyone lol.

No worries, having an alternative station to relief Union Station is not a stupid suggestion at all. Intercity rail is just the wrong application for such a relief station, but I‘m glad we didn’t have to discuss this out again…

 

[micheal_can]

No worries, having an alternative station to relief Union Station is not a stupid suggestion at all. Intercity rail is just the wrong application for such a relief station, but I‘m glad we didn’t have to discuss this out again…

Can you envision a scenario where some Via or Alto trains would use it and it be worth the extra hassle to do it?

 

[ssiguy2]

It has to use Union. Not only is it the primary transit hub and allows for passengers to easily take GO/TTC to their final destination but also allows for the eventual westward expansion to London/Windsor.

 

[Thaboss]

Also, whats the feasibility of this actually getting built? I've heard from many people that this iteration is basically just a pipe dream and that the funding required to get this going would be immense and unrealistic. Im hoping they are are wrong because it would make a lot of sense to finally have high-speed rail in the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, but I cant help but see the scale of this and be worried....

No one truly knows but it is safe to say the number one hurdle will be political will. A couple things seem to be alining on that front.

1. Trump has seen parties pivot towards domestic nation building projects and cutting down red tape.
2. The liberals are in majority territory while the cons, the party some see likely to cancel or alter, thus delaying further alto plans, appear headed towards at best a minorty.
3. Ontario and quebec prov. Are as pro public transit as theyve been in most our lifetimes. Though it remains to be seen where quebec will be after next years election, we know that in ontario ford will be in power for roughly 4 more years.
4. Even AB seems to have some sort of interest in the project, as evidenced by that photo op Smith had with ALTOs ceo. I say this to suggest that of AB is promised an Edmonton to Calgary highspeed line developed by alto, the odds of seeing some portion of the toronto quebec city line built rises significantly. Why ? Because AB would signal that building the thing had broad political support. A rare thing to see in 2024. Cons would never cancel a project that the AB prov. Wants and a libs govt may not want to give AB ammunition is needs to claim eastern allianation.

My sense is that we'll see an ottawa montreal leg of the project break ground before the libs trigger the next fed. Election.

 

[generalcanada]

No one truly knows but it is safe to say the number one hurdle will be political will. A couple things seem to be alining on that front.

1. Trump has seen parties pivot towards domestic nation building projects and cutting down red tape.
2. The liberals are in majority territory while the cons, the party some see likely to cancel or alter, thus delaying further alto plans, appear headed towards at best a minorty.
3. Ontario and quebec prov. Are as pro public transit as theyve been in most our lifetimes. Though it remains to be seen where quebec will be after next years election, we know that in ontario ford will be in power for roughly 4 more years.
4. Even AB seems to have some sort of interest in the project, as evidenced by that photo op Smith had with ALTOs ceo. I say this to suggest that of AB is promised an Edmonton to Calgary highspeed line developed by alto, the odds of seeing some portion of the toronto quebec city line built rises significantly. Why ? Because AB would signal that building the thing had broad political support. A rare thing to see in 2024. Cons would never cancel a project that the AB prov. Wants and a libs govt may not want to give AB ammunition is needs to claim eastern allianation.

My sense is that we'll see an ottawa montreal leg of the project break ground before the libs trigger the next fed. Election.

As much as smith loves running interference on transit projects like the one is calgary.
There is no conservative in Canada who thinks HSR is a bad idea. Its got quite broad support.
Hell connecting Edmonton to Calgary is a no-brainer. should have been done decades ago.

 

[Urban Sky]

No one truly knows but it is safe to say the number one hurdle will be political will.

The number one hurdle is funding. Political will only influences the public side of the funding equation

There is no conservative in Canada who thinks HSR is a bad idea. Its got quite broad support.

Makes me wonder which federal party the NIMBYs which have fought Wynne’s insincere HSR election stunt nail and tooth vote for…

 

[generalcanada]

Makes me wonder which federal party the NIMBYs which have fought Wynne’s insincere HSR election stunt nail and tooth vote for…

Its funny cause having support for a project in general and also saying it shouldnt go near me are opinions that arent mutually exclusive

 

[Thaboss]

The number one hurdle is funding. Political will only influences the public side of the funding equequation

I disagree, due to economic challanges we are entering into a period of low interest rates, which along with those economic challanges gives the govt both increased fiscal room and political impatus to spend in ways you might not do otherwise.

Their is also the ability to produce alto plans in several phases. Thus smoothing the yearly costs of development, which canada absolutly would have the fiscal space to manage.

Last but not least. Carney has very clearly stated on several occasions that deficit spending for large scale projects, such as alto, will be classed separately from spending from non-infrastructre spending. It's his way, i suspect of "balancing the budget" wink wink nudge nudge, while spending on large infrastructure projects.

Again, I will say this again. Money is not the problem, political concensus is. We are slowly getting to political consensus in this project.

 

[micheal_can]

Again, I will say this again. Money is not the problem, political concensus is. We are slowly getting to political consensus in this project.

That is the biggest thing we must all understand.
Which makes me wonder if there will be any political capital spent to give AB HSR DS wants it. And it would go a long way to mitigate the separation movement out west. Connect the less than 400km between Calgary and Edmonton seems like a no brainer given their size and the distance.

 

[Thaboss]

That is the biggest thing we must all understand.
Which makes me wonder if there will be any political capital spent to give AB HSR DS wants it. And it would go a long way to mitigate the separation movement out west. Connect the less than 400km between Calgary and Edmonton seems like a no brainer given their size and the distance.

I mentioned it in my previous comment, but smiths photo opp with alto ceo was very telling. If Edminton and Calgary HSR is something actively being discussed and pursued, and eventually rubberstamped, not even the fed cons would bother opposing east HSR development.

Imma stick to my prediction that if carney gains a majority, alto in some form or fashion will get off the ground.

 

[micheal_can]

I mentioned it in my previous comment, but smiths photo opp with alto ceo was very telling. If Edminton and Calgary HSR is something actively being discussed and pursued, and eventually rubberstamped, not even the fed cons would bother opposing east HSR development.

Imma stick to my prediction that if carney gains a majority, alto in some form or fashion will get off the ground.

I am thinking that too. I almost feel that after the AB election something for AB will get announced at the federal level.

 

[Urban Sky]

Its funny cause having support for a project in general and also saying it shouldnt go near me are opinions that arent mutually exclusive

I suggest you actually talk to conservative voters outside the Quebec-Windsor Corridor and see how much backing HSR has for, say, farmers in Manitoba. PP has promised to let ALTO proceed on the liberal’s timeline until the „final investment decision by the federal government. He knows very well why he doesn’t dare to show more comitment, despite his own riding standing to largely benefit from the project…

I disagree, due to economic challanges we are entering into a period of low interest rates, which along with those economic challanges gives the govt both increased fiscal room and political impatus to spend in ways you might not do otherwise.

Trade wars increase customer prices and therefore largely offset the deflationary effect of the accompanying recession:

Spoiler

Their is also the ability to produce alto plans in several phases. Thus smoothing the yearly costs of development, which canada absolutly would have the fiscal space to manage.

Agreed, so MTRL-OTTW in 2040, OTTW-TRTO in 2050 and QBEC-MTRL in 2060…?

Last but not least. Carney has very clearly stated on several occasions that deficit spending for large scale projects, such as alto, will be classed separately from spending from non-infrastructre spending. It's his way, i suspect of "balancing the budget" wink wink nudge nudge, while spending on large infrastructure projects.

Agreed, but to counter the recessionary effect of the trade war, you need projects which are shovel-ready now, not in 5 years when the economy has already adapted to the new reality and this project will only amplify the post-recession rebound. Only consultants (lile myself), engineers (like my colleagues) and engineering firms (like my employer) are going to really benefit from this project until then…

Again, I will say this again. Money is not the problem, political concensus is. We are slowly getting to political consensus in this project.

Money has always been the issue when building HSR. If private investors were willing to put dozens of billions on the table and ask to build HSR, it have already been built 20 years ago!

I mentioned it in my previous comment, but smiths photo opp with alto ceo was very telling. If Edminton and Calgary HSR is something actively being discussed and pursued, and eventually rubberstamped, not even the fed cons would bother opposing east HSR development.

If you tie (even just implicitly) funding for Edmonton-Calgary HSR with that for ALTO, you are just escalating the de-facto scope of what started as a smart&efficient project by even more than what the libs have succeeded so far…

Imma stick to my prediction that if carney gains a majority, alto in some form or fashion will get off the ground.

I predict he will be out of the office again before the final funding decision is done in some 5 years (i.e., at least 2 general elections from now)…

 

[Thaboss]

Trade wars increase customer prices and therefore largely offset the deflationary effect of the accompanying recession:

Inflation due to trade war will be a problem in the short term, but many economists agree CPI will rise sharply and then flatten out. I.e. BOC may hold to asses but won't do so for more than a few months. If a recession takes hold, BOC will lower rates because that would be the only med - longterm option.

Agreed, but to counter the recessionary effect of the trade war, you need projects which are shovel-ready now, not in 5 years when the economy has already adapted to the new reality

Agreed on the facts, but the politics don't always follow facts. If the govt wants to show action, it wouldn't be a stretch for them to push alto as one of many solutions to combating the recession/tarrifs, as trudau did one week before leaving office

If you tie (even just implicitly) funding for Edmonton-Calgary HSR with that for ALTO, you are just escalating the de-facto scope of what started as a smart&efficient project by even more than what the libs have succeeded so far…

I'm not a politician so I won't suggest it makes sense to do it that way, but I'm reminded of how ford likes to promise projects that at functionally nowhere near shovels to the ground, just to make a political point. I wouldn't put it past any govt to do something like that.

I predict he will be out of the office again before the final funding decision is done in some 5 years (i.e., at least 2 general elections from now

Fair enough. We're throwing darts into the air and frankly if I had to bet money it'd probably bet money that alto fails, but I think it's also fair to say that the odds of shovels to the ground for HSR is the highest it's been in our lifetimes. I think that is worth pointing out.