[McGillicuddy]

Smiths Falls could become a bedroom community if it had an ALTO station.

That's the thing: these communities want the train service for them exactly as they already are, please and thank you. If they start filling up with middle-class professors and lawyers and bureaucrats, they'll start complaining about that, too: about how the newcomers are gentrifying what was, in the Lord's eyes, a community perfect.

They would like their community changed, but only in ways that do not change the community.

 

[micheal_can]

This is a bit misleading here, railways and highways do not measure counts of people the same way. The MTO from what I can access easily publishes an average annual daily traffic number for each section but does not provide individual vehicle counts entering and exiting the highway the same way the Elizabeth line would for people and then on top of that collects no data on number of occupants per vehicle for the majority of the 401's length.
Not to say we shouldn't be building our regional transit to be able to do what the Elizabeth line does and ideally at a better price point than what we pay for it or what England does but this actual statement is likely wrong.

What is the average AADT between Toronto and Montreal and on 416.?
Now, what are the types that use it?

If we could get all or most transports onto rail,and all or most buses and as many cars on to rail, we would not only see a dramatic decrease of AADT, and a need for much more rail infrastructure.

That's the thing: these communities want the train service for them exactly as they already are, please and thank you. If they start filling up with middle-class professors and lawyers and bureaucrats, they'll start complaining about that, too: about how the newcomers are gentrifying what was, in the Lord's eyes, a community perfect.

They would like their community changed, but only in ways that do not change the community.

Then they need to plan for a station cus if they don't and a station does get built it will be a bigger problem. Any place that gets ALTO that is not already a major city should plan for doubling their population. For Peterborough, figure it will get to 200,000 within a decade of it opening. Smiths Falls will likely be at least 20,000. It might even hit 30,000+.

 

[McGillicuddy]

Then they need to plan for a station cus if they don't and a station does get built it will be a bigger problem. Any place that gets ALTO that is not already a major city should plan for doubling their population. For Peterborough, figure it will get to 200,000 within a decade of it opening. Smiths Falls will likely be at least 20,000. It might even hit 30,000+.

You know, that's actually not a bad response to all this "me-too" grubbery.

"Sure, you can have an ALTO station. It's going to double your town's population, there will be all kinds of apartment buildings, and restaurants that serve tofu, and some of the new people will speak French and own bicycles..."

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

You know, that's actually not a bad response to all this "me-too" grubbery.

"Sure, you can have an ALTO station. It's going to double your town's population, there will be all kinds of apartment buildings, and restaurants that serve tofu, and some of the new people will speak French and own bicycles..."

Nevermind french.

The ethnics! Dear Lord the ethnics are coming for our quaint little town

 

[micheal_can]

You know, that's actually not a bad response to all this "me-too" grubbery.

"Sure, you can have an ALTO station. It's going to double your town's population, there will be all kinds of apartment buildings, and restaurants that serve tofu, and some of the new people will speak French and own bicycles..."

The issue is that people do not understand how transformative this will be. They do not understand how transformative this could be. The best thing to do is to plan for it. Imagine a small town like Perth saying they want it and they are willing to see a population boom happen?

Nevermind french.

The ethnics! Dear Lord the ethnics are coming for our quaint little town

The sad part is, that is the thing that scares some of them. Their homogeneous community won't be the same. That isn't necessarily a good or bad thing.

 

[nfitz]

You know, that's actually not a bad response to all this "me-too" grubbery.

"Sure, you can have an ALTO station. It's going to double your town's population, there will be all kinds of apartment buildings, and restaurants that serve tofu, and some of the new people will speak French and own bicycles..."

You've both basically summed up a transit-oriented community.

And wasn't that orginally in the Alto proposals? I haven't heard much about this lately, and don't recall seeing anything at the public meetings.

 

[interchange42]

@AJhyett @urbanclient

You guys do not make moderating around here an easy job. I've deleted some stuff, but there's no way for me to make everything fair or everyone happy.

There are some well articulated arguments here, some less convincing... but, while it is fine to attack the points of an argument, but we just cannot have members going for the jugular in ad hominem attacks. Please refrain from those, or your account on UrbanToronto will be affected. That's just the way it needs to be to keep discourse civil here, or as close to civil as possible!

42

 

[NY99]

@AJhyett @urbanclient

You guys do not make moderating around here an easy job. I've deleted some stuff, but there's no way for me to make everything fair or everyone happy.

There are some well articulated arguments here, some less convincing... but, while it is fine to attack the points of an argument, but we just cannot have members going for the jugular in ad hominem attacks. Please refrain from those, or your account on UrbanToronto will be affected. That's just the way it needs to be to keep discourse civil here, or as close to civil as possible!

42

Doing the Lord's work!

 

[and Robin]

Holy ALTOrcation, Batman! These message boards were in a state of total structural collapse! I’ve never seen such a high-speed pileup of pessimistic prose. The thread has been completely hijacked by a locomotive of lunacy that was on track for a regional catastrophe of logic. How will the citizens of Ontario and Quebec ever bridge the gap when these digital contrarians are laying so many corridors of doubt? At this rate, the only thing moving at high speed would have been the spread of personal attacks!
Gosh, thank you, Commissioner 42! If you haven't stepped in to moderate those hyperbolic hothead hooligans, we'd be stuck in a permanent station of bitter bickering.

 

[Batman]

Robin! I wondered where you were when you didn't show up to polish the batpoles.

 

[and Robin]

Gosh, Batman, you're right! I was so caught up in this ALTOcation monitoring for signs of Penguin-style propaganda, I completely forgot about my chores... I'll head straight to the Bat-cave with the heavy-duty wax. Those poles will be so slick, we'll slide down to the Bat-mobile at break-neck speeds!

 

[StreetcarRider]

What is "High Performance Rail"? I don't know, but the Coalition for Better Rail and the North Belleville Against Alto Community Group seem to think it's better than high speed rail, and they're hosting a Town Hall on Alternatives to Alto next Wednesday about it:

Coalition for Better Rail holding town hall on Alto alternatives

The Coalition for Better Rail will hold a Town Hall on Alternatives to Alto high-speed rail.

www.intelligencer.ca

If Alto picks the northern route, it will be interesting to see whether groups like the Coalition for Better Rail and the North Belleville Against Alto Community Group keep going or fizzle out.

 

[kEiThZ]

If Alto picks the northern route, it will be interesting to see whether groups like the Coalition for Better Rail and the North Belleville Against Alto Community Group keep going or fizzle out.

They'll fizzle out. Very few are going to keep up the fight for something they don't see as a direct threat. I don't even think the opposition will be as high after the exact corridor is announced.

 

[kEiThZ]

What is "High Performance Rail"? I don't know, but if you'd like to learn about it, consider attending the Town Hall on Alternatives to Alto next Wednesday, co-hosted by the Coalition for Better Rail and the North Belleville Against Alto Community Group:

Coalition for Better Rail holding town hall on Alto alternatives

The Coalition for Better Rail will hold a Town Hall on Alternatives to Alto high-speed rail.

www.intelligencer.ca

I want to know where all these people were when HFR was being talked about? The only real advocate was the CPC MP from Peterborough.

It's so transparent that they are only pitching "HPR" so that they don't sound like the absolute NIMBYs that they are. It's smart. But obviously selfish. Also, love how they throw all the property owners along the 401 under the proverbial bus with this idea.

 

[JJTheJetPln]

I want to know where all these people were when HFR was being talked about? The only real advocate was the CPC MP from Peterborough.

They were around, just not as active. Now that there's an actual project on the table, there are tons of people coming out of the woodworks to complain about it.