[lenaitch]

There is a series of hydro corridors that make this link. Who knows whether that’s even feasible, but hydro corridors are a can of worms I can’t resist because the electrical infrastructure is in place and they are well surveyed and not built up.

I think power corridors are even less helpful in aligning rail corridors than highways. Terrain is largely irrelevant to power lines.

 

[Urban Sky]

I think power corridors are even less helpful in aligning rail corridors than highways. Terrain is largely irrelevant to power lines.

Correct and as I already explained over on Skyscraperpage, power transmission lines are strings of obstacles, which are best intersected only once in a perpendicular angle and then avoided:

This is how a road has been weaved into the 4-5 parallel power lines of the very power transmission line we are talking about [i.e., the one which crosses the Canadian shield Havelock to Arnorior]:

Note that all of the [square-ish] dots on these lines are pylons. Yes, there are more than 100 pylons in this small map extract and we need to place a safety buffer between the edges of the pylons and the limits of the HSR corridor...

Now imagine how many pylons you would have to move to create a corridor which is straight (minimum radius of 4000 meters) and wide (at least 30 meters) enough for 300 km/h fast High-Speed trains.

And finally, recall that power transmission lines are key assets for utility firms and that a derailing train crashing against a power transmission pylon is one of the worst scenarios (if you are unlucky, your train will knock it down and neighboring pylons in a domino effect and bury itself underneath them, if you are less unlucky, it will only wrap around them).

If you were running either a utility company or a rail company, would you really feel tempted to share corridors with each other?

 

[kEiThZ]

I can’t reiterate enough how almost all the problems of the QBEC-TRTO HSR corridor only relate to the segment east of Montreal. Given that it is highly possible that we will never reach Phase 3 of the project, I would not let that final segment dictate us to spend billions and billions on infrastructure pieces which make hardly any sense without the extension to QBEC. As I wrote previously, finding a downtown location which also works for MTRL-QBEC is the lowest of priorities:

I also think it's entirely possible that as they go through development, they see the costs and decide to simply break the line. Like I keep saying, people are way too fixated on what is there today.

 

[kEiThZ]

Correct and as I already explained over on Skyscraperpage, power transmission lines are strings of obstacles, which are best intersected only once in a perpendicular angle and then avoided:

Is there anything stopping the rail consortium from getting together with the utility and pursuing joint development which may even bury those power lines the whole way?

 

[micheal_can]

I also think it's entirely possible that as they go through development, they see the costs and decide to simply break the line. Like I keep saying, people are way too fixated on what is there today.

I think the problem is every armchair HSR design engineer is fantasizing of what will be done. This project is supposed to last 15 years. Until a design is released, the stuff that was released is just lines on the map. We can all fantasize how the line will go and what is going to be added or removed or ... whatever. Right now we do not know much and because so many of us have wanted this for so long, we are going crazy trying to figure it all out. For many of those issues, many 'fixes' that have been suggested sound plausible enough.

 

[crs1026]

Is there anything stopping the rail consortium from getting together with the utility and pursuing joint development which may even bury those power lines the whole way?

The obvious barriers would be cost, design time, additional EA considerations, and the non-permeability of Canadian Shield rock.

- Paul

 

[guavadelic]

Opinion | In the face of Trump’s attacks on Canada, is high-speed rail the nation-builder we need — or just a waste of money?​

Ottawa was unwise to raise hopes about higher-speed rail, which will soon be laid to rest. Again.

https://www.thestar.com/business/op...cle_f1fff162-f2e4-11ef-b1d2-bb643fc0f5e4.html

The entire pundit-class in Canada seems to be in complete agreement that this project will never see shovels on the ground. Cynicism abounds.
I'm hoping they finally get proved wrong.

 

[guavadelic]

I also think it's entirely possible that as they go through development, they see the costs and decide to simply break the line. Like I keep saying, people are way too fixated on what is there today.

Hopefully the project designers don't get bullied by Quebec politicians into changing scope of project to satisfy every local politician. We don't need CAHSR 2.0

 

[Urban Sky]

https://www.thestar.com/business/op...cle_f1fff162-f2e4-11ef-b1d2-bb643fc0f5e4.html

The entire pundit-class in Canada seems to be in complete agreement that this project will never see shovels on the ground. Cynicism abounds.

It‘s learned behaviour, given how the Liberals have become Masters of inventing HSR schemes and then scope-creeping them up, just so that they can justify further delaying any actual capital funding decision.

I'm hoping they finally get proved wrong.

We will only know in 5 or more years or whenever the „final decision by the federal government“ milestone is finally reached.

Hopefully the project designers don't get bullied by Quebec politicians into changing scope of project to satisfy every local politician. We don't need CAHSR 2.0

I wouldn’t worry about the same politicians which have all but guaranteed that this project will never get built east of Montreal, given that that segment is no longer economically and fiscally viable. All you are hearing are just the desperate attempts to maintain the appearance of something of which the infeasability must already be abundantly clear behind the scenes.

I‘m only willing to start taking this project serious when they finally start to decrease rather than further increasing its scope, because that would mean that they have finally progressed from the „what is the project we deserve?“ to the „what can we actually afford now?“ stage…

 

[nfitz]

It‘s learned behaviour, given how the Liberals have become Masters of inventing HSR schemes and then scope-creeping them up, just so that they can justify delaying any actual capital funding.

We will only know in 5 or more years or whenever the „final decision by the federal government“ milestone is finally reached.

I wouldn’t worry about the same politicians which have all but guaranteed that this project will never get built east of Montreal, given that that segment is no longer economically and fiscally viable. All you are hearing are just the desperate attempts to maintain the appearance of something of which the infeasability must already be abundantly clear behind the scenes.

I‘m only willing to start taking this project serious when they finally start to decrease rather than further increasing its scope, because that would mean that they have finally progressed from the „what is the project we deserve?“ to the „what can we actually afford now?“ stage…

On one hand, that makes sense. On the other hand, look at the contrast to the municipal and regional infrastructure expansion here, since they shifted to the "what we deserve" scope. Any of the 18 current major expansion projects here would alone have been considered too expensive a couple of decades ago.

 

[crs1026]

On one hand, that makes sense. On the other hand, look at the contrast to the municipal and regional infrastructure expansion here, since they shifted to the "what we deserve" scope. Any of the 18 current major expansion projects here would alone have been considered too expensive a couple of decades ago.

And look at how those municipal/regional level projects are stalling and not getting done. Some of that is definitely funding, easy to declare a plan but the money is not flowing as fast as the "plan" requires. Affordability is winning - quietly and out of sight.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

And look at how those municipal/regional level projects are stalling and not getting done.

Are you kidding me? Do you not remember most of the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s? Not to mention the endless announcements of years-long delays, scope reductions, and cancellation by the province in the 2010s?

Don't mistake routine delays to decades of nothing. We are light-years ahead of where we were.

 

[ProjectEnd]

https://www.thestar.com/business/op...cle_f1fff162-f2e4-11ef-b1d2-bb643fc0f5e4.html

The entire pundit-class in Canada seems to be in complete agreement that this project will never see shovels on the ground. Cynicism abounds.
I'm hoping they finally get proved wrong.

It absolutely is not happening. I have no faith this will go anywhere. Canada, as it exists today, just isn't equipped.

 

[MisterF]

I think power corridors are even less helpful in aligning rail corridors than highways. Terrain is largely irrelevant to power lines.

To expand on your point, power lines go in straight lines for sometimes hundreds of kilometres. Cliffs, mountains, rock, bodies of water, wetlands - all essentially irrelevant when the only points of contact with the ground are pylons hundreds of metres apart. With few exceptions, you're right that combining HSR and hydro corridors doesn't make sense.

 

[micheal_can]

To expand on your point, power lines go in straight lines for sometimes hundreds of kilometres. Cliffs, mountains, rock, bodies of water, wetlands - all essentially irrelevant when the only points of contact with the ground are pylons hundreds of metres apart. With few exceptions, you're right that combining HSR and hydro corridors doesn't make sense.

To add tot his, if someone thinks that the line should follow a hydro corridor, they should get out of the city and try and follow the corridor/ Especially on the Shield, it would be near impossible to make it work.