[kEiThZ]

KEiThZ:
It seems your understanding of EK's operation is a little simplistic especially when you talk about how AC is missing out on all this traffic. I just flew with EK on the YYZ-DXB flight four times in the last two months and when I disembarked in Dubai I didn't see many people in the baggage claim from my flight except for a few taking advantage of a quick stopover.

There are maybe... MAYBE 6-12 people per EK flight from YYZ that are ending their journey in DXB (so approx 18-36 pax weekly). That leaves over 330 people connecting onto various other destinations from Dubai. Are you then saying that Air Canada should fly YYZ-DXB for those 6-12 people? How is that a sound business/operational model?

You flew on a plane full of people to Dubai. How is that not demand for the route? I never said that the demand was to travel just to Dubai. I said that Dubai makes an excellent transit point for onwards travel to South, South-East and East Asia. This is particularly the case now that Air India is set to join Star Alliance. There is potential for AC to coordinate schedules with AI. I could see plenty of demand from Canada and the US for an AC service to Dubai from Toronto with an AI connection to the subcontinent. Most South Asian Canadians, I know would love to be able to stop in Dubai (where many have family and friends) rather than having to changeover in London or Paris or Frankfurt where they simply sit around in the airport for 5-6 hours.

And here's a simple question, if there's no demand for the route why is AC so vehemently opposed to Emirates getting more than 3 slots a week at Pearson? I suspect that those A380s will be full when service starts and that Emirates could easily increase service to 7 A380 runs a week if it had to by drawing in riders from the US who would transit through Toronto on codeshare with their US partners.

 

[yyzhyd]

You flew on a plane full of people to Dubai. How is that not demand for the route? I never said that the demand was to travel just to Dubai. I said that Dubai makes an excellent transit point for onwards travel to South, South-East and East Asia. This is particularly the case now that Air India is set to join Star Alliance. There is potential for AC to coordinate schedules with AI. I could see plenty of demand from Canada and the US for an AC service to Dubai from Toronto with an AI connection to the subcontinent. Most South Asian Canadians, I know would love to be able to stop in Dubai (where many have family and friends) rather than having to changeover in London or Paris or Frankfurt where they simply sit around in the airport for 5-6 hours.

And here's a simple question, if there's no demand for the route why is AC so vehemently opposed to Emirates getting more than 3 slots a week at Pearson? I suspect that those A380s will be full when service starts and that Emirates could easily increase service to 7 A380 runs a week if it had to by drawing in riders from the US who would transit through Toronto on codeshare with their US partners.

I guess it comes down to definition of "route" doesn't it.
I completely agree that significant demand exists between Canada and South Asia. But the route in question is YYZ-DXB... how many passengers are flying THIS route?
As a South Asian with friends and family in DXB I agree it's a favourable transit point.
With respect to AC & AI connection in DXB as you suggested..
AI would offer 15 destinations vs EK's 10. However EK has multiple daily flights to each destination vs AI's one or maybe two (DEL/BOM)
But neither AC nor AI could offer the free stopover in DXB which is what appeals to people flying EK who like the stop to visit friends and family.

It's not that AC vehemently opposes EK getting more flights... Actually in 2002 Emirates was offered 6 weekly flights as part of the Canada-UAE bilateral agreement. They insisted on 7 or "nothing" and refused to start service unless their demands were met. Etihad seeing an opportunity swooped in and took 3 of the 6 frequencies. Emirates decided that they better use the remaining three frequencies or they would be shut out of the Canadian Market.

Why would USA fliers fly to YYZ to take EK when EK has codeshare agreements with CO and UA in the USA domestically and flies to IAH, SFO, LAX, and JFK (2x daily). Also UA flies nonstop IAD-DXB and DL flies nonstop
ATL-DXB.

 

[kEiThZ]

It's not that AC vehemently opposes EK getting more flights... Actually in 2002 Emirates was offered 6 weekly flights as part of the Canada-UAE bilateral agreement. They insisted on 7 or "nothing" and refused to start service unless their demands were met. Etihad seeing an opportunity swooped in and took 3 of the 6 frequencies. Emirates decided that they better use the remaining three frequencies or they would be shut out of the Canadian Market.

EK applied for more slots. AC asked for standing in the hearing and has publicly and privately (to government officials) opposed the expansion of the presence of Middle Eastern airlines in Canada...obviously that would rob a significant chunk of AC's traffic that currently transits through Europe. That's why there are no more than 7 slots to the UAE per week.

Why would USA fliers fly to YYZ to take EK when EK has codeshare agreements with CO and UA in the USA domestically and flies to IAH, SFO, LAX, and JFK (2x daily). Also UA flies nonstop IAD-DXB and DL flies nonstop
ATL-DXB.

In the US Midwest, there is still some demand for travel to or through the Middle East. And Air Canada is actually becoming a popular option for many US travellers going to Asia. This is even more the case, now that Pearson has seggregated it's international arrival and departures areas to allow for throught travel with minimal hassle. I firmly believe that if AC plays its cards right, it could make a good chunk of change catering to this market (US travellers). Also, an AC flight to Dubai means not just a connection with AI but also with other Star Alliance partners serving South-East Asia, East Asia and Australia/New Zealand.

Last point....the free stopover. Yes, I know that's a popular reason to choose EK. However, with Air India joining Star Alliance, I think the opportunity to collect points from Canada to India would outweigh the stopover charge for Dubai. Moreover, one would hope that since Star Alliance members do coordinate many, many activities that they would be able to mitigate some of the price increase from a stopover.

 

[unimaginative2]

I flew YYZ-FRA-DXB on AC-Lufthansa in February. As always, my bag was the very last to come off the conveyor in Dubai, so I killed time by staring at baggage tags. I was astounded to see that at least 40% of the tags I saw on that Lufthansa 747 were connecting passengers from Canada. It didn't surprise me, because I heard Canadian English and complaints about Air Canada (what could be more Canadian?) all around me on the flight from Frankfurt. The number of people who were willing to add hours and an extra connection to their trip just to get their Aeroplan suggested that there'd be a lot of demand for an AC YYZ-DXB nonstop. Oh, and none of the tags showed onward connections. They were all terminating in Dubai.