[ssiguy2]

Of course, they wouldn't need any loops if they simply used bi-directional trains.

 

[reinventingthewheel]

The island loop won’t fall early on the critical path for this current scope of work. I suppose if the Union segment takes long enough it’s possible the Broadview extension design could be realized, funded and constructed… but I wouldn’t bet on it.

Ultimately, it’s a small cost to reserve empty land and construct the island loop, since it could very well be removed later and allow more development.

 

[xmyth_]

If I recall, the streetcar extension to the Leslie Barns along Commissioners is 30yrs down the road.

 

[DSCToronto]

If I recall, the streetcar extension to the Leslie Barns along Commissioners is 30yrs down the road.

It has no schedule and requires another bridge over the new Don so it will certainly not be done soon.

 

[nfitz]

If I recall, the streetcar extension to the Leslie Barns along Commissioners is 30yrs down the road.

To be fair that's what we were saying about Line 5 opening a few months ago.

 

[drum118]

If I recall, the streetcar extension to the Leslie Barns along Commissioners is 30yrs down the road.

You will be lucky to see a section to Broadview by 2050-60 at the rate TTC and the city has been trying to do things along the Waterfront for Transit. There is nothing in the planning stage for the area east of Broadview extension let alone getting the Broadview line down to Commissioner St today. You may see the extension to the Leslie Barns by 2070. Even the extension of Cherry St to the Shipping channel may happen 2060-70 Both lines needs bridges over the Don River at great cost now and major disruption to the area to put those bridges in.

Will we see the QQE extension in place by 2035 considering the first haft was supposed to been 2014/15???

 

[xmyth_]

To be fair that's what we were saying about Line 5 opening a few months ago.

Heh. But really, there IS a waterfront Toronto document that exists from before this new transit plan that says tracks to Leslie Barns is a plan 30yrs down the road. It stuck with me because if you told me it would take 30yrs for Ontario Line I could believe it, but flat land through industrial? Crazy to me.

If the pinch point is having to make another (complimentary) bridge across the Don, pfft- I guess we have to wait.

 

[nfitz]

Heh. But really, there IS a waterfront Toronto document that exists from before this new transit plan that says tracks to Leslie Barns is a plan 30yrs down the road. It stuck with me because if you told me it would take 30yrs for Ontario Line I could believe it, but flat land through industrial? Crazy to me.

If the pinch point is having to make another (complimentary) bridge across the Don, pfft- I guess we have to wait.

There's not much point going east now, and it would be expensive given the sewer/road issues. Or build something temporary to rebuild later. The only benefit is redundancy ... and after a decade, that hasn't really been an issue. Though who knows how they'd rebuild the Queen/Leslie interchange - I don't think it would last another 30 years.

Surely 30 years is the timeframe of development along Commissioners - build it when it's needed.

 

[GameOnBrad]

For those who may not have seen the other forums associated with all these plans for Streetcar Expansion in the docklands and the Broadview Extension. Communities include: East Harbour District, McCleary District, and the Media Hub.

Eventually the Hearn District will come into the picture somehow in the south and transit will also go further east beyond McCleary and the Media Hub waaaay into the future.

I think I've added all the appropriate links to other forums associated with all this in some way.

East Harbour and McCleary are the two big ones to watch for/follow. The Broadview Extension ties directly into those two comminities as well as the Streetcar expansion over the Don, along Commissioners.

 

[ssiguy2]

Toronto needs a Waterfront LRT but not at any price. This price is obscene and would be laughed at anywhere else on the planet. There is absolutely no way this line can be justified at such a price and the money would be FAR better spent on other needed projects like RapidTO and GO serving hundreds of thousands more passengers and thousands of more destinations. This is particularly true of providing service to unserved area which also are often low-income and the most transit dependent. The last point is crucial as this line wreaks of elitism making sure the well-off who can afford to live near the Waterfront get served before the millions who can't . Of course, that is Chow all over..........a downtown elitist Patrician who claims to support the lower income people but simultaneously would get a nose bleed if she had to go north of Eglinton or, God forbid, people in Scar/Etob/NY. Her photo-op for the opening of the Finch line was probably the first time she had visited the area since the last election and she probably took a shower after doing it.

 

[txlseries4]

Toronto needs a Waterfront LRT but not at any price. This price is obscene and would be laughed at anywhere else on the planet. There is absolutely no way this line can be justified at such a price and the money would be FAR better spent on other needed projects like RapidTO and GO serving hundreds of thousands more passengers and thousands of more destinations. This is particularly true of providing service to unserved area which also are often low-income and the most transit dependent. The last point is crucial as this line wreaks of elitism making sure the well-off who can afford to live near the Waterfront get served before the millions who can't . Of course, that is Chow all over..........a downtown elitist Patrician who claims to support the lower income people but simultaneously would get a nose bleed if she had to go north of Eglinton or, God forbid, people in Scar/Etob/NY. Her photo-op for the opening of the Finch line was probably the first time she had visited the area since the last election and she probably took a shower after doing it.

I hope you can take a step back and recognize how delusional this is...

 

[dob467]

Toronto needs a Waterfront LRT but not at any price. This price is obscene and would be laughed at anywhere else on the planet. There is absolutely no way this line can be justified at such a price and the money would be FAR better spent on other needed projects like RapidTO and GO serving hundreds of thousands more passengers and thousands of more destinations. This is particularly true of providing service to unserved area which also are often low-income and the most transit dependent. The last point is crucial as this line wreaks of elitism making sure the well-off who can afford to live near the Waterfront get served before the millions who can't . Of course, that is Chow all over..........a downtown elitist Patrician who claims to support the lower income people but simultaneously would get a nose bleed if she had to go north of Eglinton or, God forbid, people in Scar/Etob/NY. Her photo-op for the opening of the Finch line was probably the first time she had visited the area since the last election and she probably took a shower after doing it.

I really hope as we move into full on municipal election season we get more thoughtful comments on the political races than this here. Chow's an elitist who's never been outside the downtown and needs to shower after visiting those neighbourhoods? Come on dude, her ward polling numbers in the last mayoral byelection don't bare that out. If I'm looking for needless rhetoric I'll pick up a copy of the Sun. Let's do better here

 

[GameOnBrad]

The huge number of homes and jobs planned in the Portlands area is enormous, across three districts alone, so these transit projects are definitely badly needed, either in tandem with the housing development, or shortly after the housing development.

As for cost, that's when you have to get down into the weeds, instead of shouting up at the sky.

Are we more expensive than many European Countries for Transit Builds? Absolutely. But "why" is the actual important question and it has very little to do with any specific project.

Cancelling one transit project for another doesn't address the issue at all. Diverting the money elsewhere doesn't accomplish anything either.

That's where the "weeds" come into the picture. Even I know you'd have to get into the finer details of labour, management, processes (specifically with construction), contacts, contract workers, planning, legal matters, lack of standardization, and so on and so on. I honestly believe it has less to do with a specific transit project than the "weeds" of how we actually do things.

But, I think that about covers it for me in this regard. I'll move on.

 

[ssiguy2]

I know, I know, I was kidding but I still stand by the fact that this line's price for the benefits providing just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Seriously, $3 billion for a 4km streetcar? Yes, they will have to redo Union and have a tunnel under Cherry but in way should that cost more than a them and if it does then it simply isn't worth the money spent. For this kind of money they should be able to build a 4km subway to the Portlands.

All infrastructure, transit or not, comes with decisions of whether this is the best use of public funds. Money if finite so one must determine how do I get the most bang for the buck and when you consider they literally could build hundreds of km of RapidTO or an electrified GO RER system both serving hundreds of thousands of more people and thousands of more destination, this line cannot be justified for the cost they say they will need to build it.

 

[Van647]

I know, I know, I was kidding but I still stand by the fact that this line's price for the benefits providing just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Seriously, $3 billion for a 4km streetcar? Yes, they will have to redo Union and have a tunnel under Cherry but in way should that cost more than a them and if it does then it simply isn't worth the money spent. For this kind of money they should be able to build a 4km subway to the Portlands.

All infrastructure, transit or not, comes with decisions of whether this is the best use of public funds. Money if finite so one must determine how do I get the most bang for the buck and when you consider they literally could build hundreds of km of RapidTO or an electrified GO RER system both serving hundreds of thousands of more people and thousands of more destination, this line cannot be justified for the cost they say they will need to build it.

The same reason we are spending 1.5 billion for Bloor-Yonge station capacity improvements that will result in 0 km subway extension. Have you ever used the Union street car station ... It is tiny, overflowing well beyond its capacity and will add a third route on the same station ( I could go on more on how unsafe it is and with current conditions at Union & at Bloor-Yonge, it is only a moment of when not if there will be a stampede ) .. The money is about the number of people served, not just about the distance added !