[Northern Light]

To the best of my knowledge, that was the configuration of the road west of York. East of York, the tracks swung to the south side of the roadway - approximately where the streetcar ROW will be - not the least of which was to avoid the streetcar tracks between Bay and York.

I concur, my recollection is that the tracks were primarily on the south side, except for a couple of crossovers, one to the LCBO warehouse, and I think another further east.

I have never heard of a plan for CN to use TTC trackage down on Queens Quay and I highly doubt that it ever was seriously considered for a very, very large number of reasons.

Dan

Me neither.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I mean isn't TTC streetcar track not even the right gauge?

 

[drum118]

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2025/ttc/bgrd/backgroundfile-253283.pdf

To the best of my knowledge, that was the configuration of the road west of York. East of York, the tracks swung to the south side of the roadway - approximately where the streetcar ROW will be - not the least of which was to avoid the streetcar tracks between Bay and York.

I have never heard of a plan for CN to use TTC trackage down on Queens Quay and I highly doubt that it ever was seriously considered for a very, very large number of reasons.

Dan

CN wasn't going to use TTC tracks, but their tracks were in TTC ROW as dual gauge and why the ROW was to be wider than normal. The rest regarding CN tracks is right east of York, but no idea about the west side or how far it went as well did it go to the silo's.

I'm very curious to see where all the coach buses will layover, and transport trucks that serve the Redpath plant will temporarily park once this bus lane is put in place. This should be interesting.

Nevertheless, glad to see the city can actually move quickly on an issue without having to issue countless useless "studies" and "reports".

The buses by the hotel will use a new area where the Yonge Slip area is to be fill in along with all other vehicles for that area as well.

After many meeting between Redpath, City of Toronto and Waterfront Toronto, agreement was reached that would see a layover area next to TTC ROW by the entrance to Redpath to house 2-3 trucks waiting to gain access to Redpath that the west bound traffic lane will swing around the truck layover area from what I can recalled at this time.

 

[smallspy]

I mean isn't TTC streetcar track not even the right gauge?

It's 2 and a half inches wider, which while is problematic isn't actually the end of the world. The trackage at the former Bombardier plant in Thunder Bay is mostly TTC gauge, and standard gauge rolling stock can operate on it, although care must be taken in order not to derail on the curves.

The bigger issue is the wheel profile, and the way that the TTC builds their curves. Streetcar flanges are narrower than a new railroad wheel flange, and with the inside rail on curves being girder guard rail - where there is a lip integrated into the rail that presses against the back of the wheel - that would cause issues with railway equipment. None of this was an issue at Thunder Bay, as there was no girder guard rail used anywhere, it was all standard T rail.

And then there's the loading gauge - trains are much, much wider than streetcars, and their height would likely cause issues with the overhead.

CN wasn't going to use TTC tracks, but their tracks were in TTC ROW as dual gauge and why the ROW was to be wider than normal. The rest regarding CN tracks is right east of York, but no idea about the west side or how far it went as well did it go to the silo's.

How would that even work? The difference in gauge between TTC and railways is so small that it can not be accomplished by using 3 rails.

It's possible that it was planned for the railway trackage to use the TTC ROW, but it wouldn't have been by sharing rails. And it would have required the TTC to stop running streetcars while the freights were running.

Also, nitpick: that wasn't CN track, it was owned by the Toronto Harbour Commission. Both CN and CP had access to it.

Dan

 

[drum118]

It's 2 and a half inches wider, which while is problematic isn't actually the end of the world. The trackage at the former Bombardier plant in Thunder Bay is mostly TTC gauge, and standard gauge rolling stock can operate on it, although care must be taken in order not to derail on the curves.

The bigger issue is the wheel profile, and the way that the TTC builds their curves. Streetcar flanges are narrower than a new railroad wheel flange, and with the inside rail on curves being girder guard rail - where there is a lip integrated into the rail that presses against the back of the wheel - that would cause issues with railway equipment. None of this was an issue at Thunder Bay, as there was no girder guard rail used anywhere, it was all standard T rail.

And then there's the loading gauge - trains are much, much wider than streetcars, and their height would likely cause issues with the overhead.


How would that even work? The difference in gauge between TTC and railways is so small that it can not be accomplished by using 3 rails.

It's possible that it was planned for the railway trackage to use the TTC ROW, but it wouldn't have been by sharing rails. And it would have required the TTC to stop running streetcars while the freights were running.

Also, nitpick: that wasn't CN track, it was owned by the Toronto Harbour Commission. Both CN and CP had access to it.

Dan

CN Tracks would be on both sides of one of TTC track making the spacing wider between TTC tracks to the point you had 6 rails in that ROW. Delivery of tank cars would take place at night after TTC stop service on the line for the night since there was no need for 7/24 on that section of the line in 2014 if it was in service then.

It may have been own by Toronto Harbour Commission, but CN was the only line working on the waterfront back then with people thinking it was a CN line and not knowing the history behind it. Just like people not realizing they are standing about 1500 feet from the original shoreline of the harbour today. Anything south of Front St and the Esplanade was water up to around 1850 when landfill was used to build the RR yards and industrial buildings and docks for ships that extended 500 feet out from the shoreline.

 

[Amare]

Where on QQE do these trucks and buses hang out now? From the ?preliminary design posted earlier, there is no Eastbound bus lane from Bay to Jarvis. The south side of QQE there is largely unchanged. There is till a large "shoulder" (with the maple leafs on the asphalt) though it looks like it will be narrowed but I think enough to fit a truck or a bus. The loading zone on the south side in front of Westin appears unchanged. I guess we shall see what gets built and what the actual dimensions of things would be.

Trucks and buses usually layover/park temporarily on the south side between Yonge and Jarvis, and additional buses usually use the north side of Queens Quay between Yonge and Bay.

 

[Admiral Beez]

It was along with a monorail with TTC shooting it down along with the committee.

TTC max ridership for Union Loop was 10, 000 at peak time for the various lines feeding into it. More like 15,000, but who am I to say this when TTC/ML is to supposed know more than us.

We laugh about monorails, but China’s got it figured out.

 

[drum118]

We laugh about monorails, but China’s got it figured out.

Add South America

Only how do you connect Union Station as well not part of the streetcar network?

 

[Sunnyside]

I mean isn't TTC streetcar track not even the right gauge?

May be late now, but Iirc, that was the entire reason why the gauge is different- to not let freight use the tracks, like they were doing in Hamilton and beyond. I probably learned that on here somewhere…

 

[DSCToronto]

I find it both ominous and disappointing that the TTC has no $$ to further advance their share of the Waterfront LRT work - a Council priority for many years! From: https://secure.toronto.ca/council/agenda-item.do?item=2025.TTC3.6

Waterfront East LRT (WELRT)

The TTC’s 2025-2034 Capital Budget and Plan only includes funds for the Preliminary Design and Engineering (PDE) phase (30% Design) of the WELRT Segment 1 component of the project. The total approved budget for the TTC’s current scope of work for the WELRT project is $27 million, of which approximately $23.2 million has been spent to date.

City Council approved the report, Advancing Waterfront East Light Rail Transit, on November 8, 2023, advancing the 60% Design for the WELRT project along Queens Quay East from Yonge Street to Villiers Loop by Waterfront Toronto; this includes all Segment 2 and 3 components as well as the Yonge Street Infill and Queens Quay East Extension early works. The report did not include any additional funds to advance WELRT Segment 1 to be delivered by the TTC.

The TTC is currently not advancing the scope of work for the Segment 1 component, which provides the required capacity and operational improvements to the Union Station Loop, pending further funding commitment and approval, as the procurement strategy for Segment 1 will require full funding commitment for this segment to proceed." (My emphasis.)

 

[drum118]

I find it both ominous and disappointing that the TTC has no $$ to further advance their share of the Waterfront LRT work - a Council priority for many years! From: https://secure.toronto.ca/council/agenda-item.do?item=2025.TTC3.6

Waterfront East LRT (WELRT)

The TTC’s 2025-2034 Capital Budget and Plan only includes funds for the Preliminary Design and Engineering (PDE) phase (30% Design) of the WELRT Segment 1 component of the project. The total approved budget for the TTC’s current scope of work for the WELRT project is $27 million, of which approximately $23.2 million has been spent to date.

City Council approved the report, Advancing Waterfront East Light Rail Transit, on November 8, 2023, advancing the 60% Design for the WELRT project along Queens Quay East from Yonge Street to Villiers Loop by Waterfront Toronto; this includes all Segment 2 and 3 components as well as the Yonge Street Infill and Queens Quay East Extension early works. The report did not include any additional funds to advance WELRT Segment 1 to be delivered by the TTC.

The TTC is currently not advancing the scope of work for the Segment 1 component, which provides the required capacity and operational improvements to the Union Station Loop, pending further funding commitment and approval, as the procurement strategy for Segment 1 will require full funding commitment for this segment to proceed." (My emphasis.)

I will keep saying, build the east portal and the wye connection to the tunnel and block off the tunnel and the loop until the city can help TTC to do the work for them fund wise. This will allow the east-west connection to Villiers loop and the connection to Cherry St loop once ML finish the line 3 work there.

Otherwise, we will dead before the line is open in 2040-50 or when every

 

[Jeff Morgan]

In the letter to Executive Committee dated 24 January 2025 titled "Advancing the Waterfront East Light Rail Transit" it is stated that the 60% design work for the Yonge Street Slip Infill is expected to be complete by March 2025. It also states that city staff will not report back until Q1 2026. Why is there such a long delay from design work completion to presenting to executive committee? Is this a project that could be moved forward and completed independently from the rest of the line?

 

[drum118]

In the letter to Executive Committee dated 24 January 2025 titled "Advancing the Waterfront East Light Rail Transit" it is stated that the 60% design work for the Yonge Street Slip Infill is expected to be complete by March 2025. It also states that city staff will not report back until Q1 2026. Why is there such a long delay from design work completion to presenting to executive committee? Is this a project that could be moved forward and completed independently from the rest of the line?

The slip work can happen any time and best to move it to the top of the list as it will help when work starts on the portal. By having the work done sooner, it free up the current on street parking, cars/buses, getting to/from the hotel and able to shift traffic for the portal work.

 

[robmausser]

Add South America

Only how do you connect Union Station as well not part of the streetcar network?

Iroinically a lot of the monorails in South America were built by Bombardier...a Canadian company....

 

[drum118]

Iroinically a lot of the monorails in South America were built by Bombardier...a Canadian company....

Doesn't answer my question and BBD is no longer in the transit game will only make business jets.