Northern Light
Superstar
What is? My suggestion to improve 24 hour service?
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What is? My suggestion to improve 24 hour service?
Bordercollie
Senior Member
The "service improvements"
cplchanb
Senior Member
york region is mainly suburbs and apart from the core routes youre living in a dream world if you think any form of increased bus service would significantly move single homeowners to not drive.
ShonTron
Moderator
Brampton has questions for you.
cplchanb
Senior Member
Brampton is 1 city... last time i heard york region is a conglomerate of 5 cities/towns ranging from dense city like yonge st to sparse like newmarket.
their geographical service area is many times larger than brampton yet their operating budget is the similar.
its like comparing operating trains in canada vs france...
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Northern Light
Superstar
York region has a population of 1.1M vs Brampton at ~600,000;
York Region is promising funding to YRT that has no increases for inflation/population:
Brampton Transit has gross expenditures of 91M in 2024 more than 2.5x what York Region will spend, spread over less than 60% of the population.
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Where exactly did you get the idea that YRT was getting a budget similar to BT? Its not even close.
Brampton Transit Budget: $151 per person
YRT Budget: $32 per person
Sandpit
Active Member
Yes but it's YRT, so we have to adjust our expectations accordingly. I'm just happy I wasn't the only one to suggest it in the annual transit initiatives feedback.
Undead
Senior Member
It's probably student and TFW renters driving ridership much more than homeowners. But it would be good to see the breakdown between renters/owners taking transit in Brampton, if those stats exist.
Sunnyside
Senior Member
I know for a fact, and that York Region does as well, that this is not true. The issue is service hours, plain and simple. York Region consistently has less service hours, and service density at large, relative to population and job density compared to its peers of similar or lower density. The outer 416 is, on the whole, less dense than Southern York Region.
The proof for this is that service is quite well 'allocated', or at least not in a worse manner than anywhere else. Efficiencies could be gained, and perhaps the VIVA services should be prioritized above all else, but you would have to cut service somewhere else to improve a route we want to focus on.
This is very much a political issue, and has little to do with how good York Region is at transit on the whole. This can be seen in the ridiculously high fares.
mossynukes
Active Member
Service till 12 is a start, But I am quite shocked that the 8 and the downtown Markham branch of the Purple saw no improvement in frequency for the opening of York University
Adjei
Senior Member
Plus their demographics are different. Brampton seems more like a working class suburb with a large international student population who don’t own cars and are willing to use transit.
The cities in York Region are more of upper middle class white collar job types who drive. I doubt you’re getting most of them out of their cars even with service increases.
Sorry to stereotype.
Northern Light
Superstar
Pockets of York Region fit that description, but many parts do not.
Aurora is one thing, the nicest parts of old Richmond Hill or Thornhill (including some newer bits)......but those are partially offset by areas dense with condos (many rented), by many University Students attending UTSC or York, and others attending Seneca at York at Newnham or King, and smattering of older purpose-built rentals and affordable housing as well.
Lots of upper-middle income earners in Toronto commute by transit, and many York Region residents commute to downtown jobs by GO Train, particularly the Stouffville corridor and Barrie Corridor and also drive down to Finch Station and park.
I think plenty of them could be persuaded to switch if they were one bus route from their GO/TTC stop and that route ran every 10M or better; and if GO charged for parking!
That's not to suggest they will all go car free, but I could see many households dropping a second or third car and a small number going car-free, but more than today.
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chrisw
Active Member
There's definitely usage from commuters in York Region which is why frequencies become decent. But they need to invest in more mid and off peak frequency.
6ixGod
Active Member
YRT/VIVA is the most frustrating transit agency in the GTA. They literally spent billions building some of the most beautiful BRT stations I’ve seen and they **** the bed with mind numbingly horrible frequency and timing. It’s a region that still thinks they’re a sleepy suburb of Toronto….it’s not…especially Vaughan and Markham.
Build it and they will come. I know plenty of people who avoid VIVA simply because the scheduling and frequency makes no sense. Look at the GO stations in Markham, they’re packed every morning. People happily will ditch the car to take decent public transport.
Build it and they will come. I know plenty of people who avoid VIVA simply because the scheduling and frequency makes no sense. Look at the GO stations in Markham, they’re packed every morning. People happily will ditch the car to take decent public transport.
cplchanb
Senior Member
they had 15 years of data even before covid to show that the build it and they will come sentiment didnt necessarily ring true. suburban moms and dads still clung to their giant suvs. covid and the horror stories of TTC assaults certainly did not help.