[Trackside_Treasure]

There are enough Budds and F40PH-2's on the corridor to merge the existing Ventures into 8 car trains and keep service running while new trains are ordered iirc. They can last another 5 years.

Merging the existing 6 car Ventures in 8 cars will give 22 trains instead of 32.

That means we need 10 Budd trainsets. They can be short in length, as ridership will spill onto the larger Venture trains.

The P42s and LRC's days are numbered however.

It seems to me that the HEP fleet's days are more severely 'numbered'. Most rail enthusiasts thought they would be the last fleet to go: Renaissance, LRC then HEP.
However:

• there are only 3 HEP trains in use plus a guard train.
• LRC fleet is 10 trains with one guard train.
• Ventures are 13 with two guards.

With spring cancellations, there are now 26, down from 28, trains in the Corridor rotation. That's only four legacy trains needed based on your number of 22 augmented Venture sets.

Furthermore, we keep talking and thinking about more Venture cars being ordered. The Siemens Sacramento plant is busy. Even if more cars were ordered today, it's likely a two-year timeline to completion? How would this fit in with the government's current priorities and budgeting? Is it even a thing?

 

[Trackside_Treasure]

The existing Venture sets have 5 cars (2 business, 3 economy) and they are lengthening some of them to 7 cars (3 business, 4 economy).

Well, they tested one train one day. Have we heard of others being lengthened? Knowing VIA, there will be need to be hundreds of miles of testing of the augmented train.

 

[Bordercollie]

It seems to me that the HEP fleet's days are more severely 'numbered'. Most rail enthusiasts thought they would be the last fleet to go: Renaissance, LRC then HEP.
However:

• there are only 3 HEP trains in use plus a guard train.
• LRC fleet is 10 trains with one guard train.
• Ventures are 13 with two guards.

With spring cancellations, there are now 26, down from 28, trains in the Corridor rotation. That's only four legacy trains needed based on your number of 22 augmented Venture sets.

Furthermore, we keep talking and thinking about more Venture cars being ordered. The Siemens Sacramento plant is busy. Even if more cars were ordered today, it's likely a two-year timeline to completion? How would this fit in with the government's current priorities and budgeting? Is it even a thing?

I thought that they opened up a new facility to build the coach shells?

That could speed things up.

 

[micheal_can]

I thought the original contract was for 5 and 7 car sets, but then only was 5 car sets. Seems a lot of this could have been avoided if they initially got those 7 car sets from the beginning. Now,hopefully they can get enough cars to make up enough 7 car sets to allow the retirement of the legacy fleet, and it not cost an arm and a leg.

 

[dowlingm]

It seems to me that the HEP fleet's days are more severely 'numbered'. Most rail enthusiasts thought they would be the last fleet to go: Renaissance, LRC then HEP.
However:

• there are only 3 HEP trains in use plus a guard train.
• LRC fleet is 10 trains with one guard train.
• Ventures are 13 with two guards.

With spring cancellations, there are now 26, down from 28, trains in the Corridor rotation. That's only four legacy trains needed based on your number of 22 augmented Venture sets.

Furthermore, we keep talking and thinking about more Venture cars being ordered. The Siemens Sacramento plant is busy. Even if more cars were ordered today, it's likely a two-year timeline to completion? How would this fit in with the government's current priorities and budgeting? Is it even a thing?

It makes far more sense to me to flog a fleet which is “available for a limited time” (the LRCs) than one which will be needed (at least in part) through 2035, especially if HEP1 cars need to start permanently replacing Renaissance coaches so that remaining parts can be dedicated to the other Ren car types.

Did all the various HEP1/2 refurb programs finish or are there still cars in that process?

 

[smallspy]

There are enough Budds and F40PH-2's on the corridor to merge the existing Ventures into 8 car trains and keep service running while new trains are ordered iirc. They can last another 5 years.

There's not.

Go check the train cycling sheets - there are only 3 Budd sets in service on any given day.

A lot of them are currently out getting work in order to make them last another 10-plus years. VIA's timing of this couldn't have been any worse.

As I recall from the equipment cycling charts that were posted here previously (can't find them at the moment), Via was already operating some 7-car LRC sets on Toronto-Montreal services, so it makes sense to switch those to 7-car Venture sets and redeploy those LRCs on shorter trains where they can save a Siemens set from being affected by the speed restrictions.

There are only two trainsets that run that length - they are used on 70-64 and 65-75. All other trainsets are shorter.

It seems to me that the HEP fleet's days are more severely 'numbered'. Most rail enthusiasts thought they would be the last fleet to go: Renaissance, LRC then HEP.
However:

• there are only 3 HEP trains in use plus a guard train.
• LRC fleet is 10 trains with one guard train.
• Ventures are 13 with two guards.

They aren't. The HEP2 fleet will hang around in Corridor service until the new long distance fleet arrives, and there will be cars in that order that will be used to replace them.

That said.......VIA has shipped off many of them for much-needed work. And as I wrote above, their timing couldn't have been worse.

Dan

 

[reaperexpress]

There are only two trainsets that run that length - they are used on 70-64 and 65-75. All other trainsets are shorter.

Yes... And like I said those trips are currently run by legacy sets. It makes sense for VIA to assemble two or three Siemens sets to operate those rotations instead, to minimize the effects of speed restrictions.

Well, they tested one train one day. Have we heard of others being lengthened? Knowing VIA, there will be need to be hundreds of miles of testing of the augmented train.

Sorry I guess I overspoke. Via has assembled at least one set in a 7 car config, presumably for testing, presumably with the intent of using it between Toronto and Montreal.

 

[nfitz]

Knowing VIA, there will be need to be hundreds of miles of testing of the augmented train.

Why? It's designed for 7-car trains. Aren't any of Amtrak's 7-car sets operational? They've even ordered 8-car trainsets.

Though hundreds of mile of testing can be achieved by running a 7-car trainset from Montreal to Toronto and back.

It's CN I fear who'd want to do more testing.

 

[smallspy]

Yes... And like I said those trips are currently run by legacy sets. It makes sense for VIA to assemble two or three Siemens sets to operate those rotations instead, to minimize the effects of speed restrictions.

Except that those trains will be equipped with legacy equipment even after the rollout of the Siemens sets are complete and the LRC cars are removed from service.

This is why the HEP2 cars are not going anywhere for the foreseeable future.

Dan

 

[reaperexpress]

Except that those trains will be equipped with legacy equipment even after the rollout of the Siemens sets are complete and the LRC cars are removed from service.

This is why the HEP2 cars are not going anywhere for the foreseeable future.

I don't think equipment allocation is an unquestionable law of the universe. When they originally made the fleet plan there were no restrictions on Siemens trains. Now there are. It makes sense to revisit the fleet allocation to minimize impacts on the people who are still riding Via for some reason, and to recapture riders (such as me) who have completely given up on Via due to its now chronic unreliability. Via's on-time performance is below 30%, and it's pretty common to have delays of an hour, which is more than the time difference between the train and a bus. Why would I take Via Rail, when I could ride Red Arrow for half the price in greater comfort? In the past I'd take Via because it had a time advantage, but that's no longer the case.

Red Arrow bus seats, notably using 2+1 seating layout:

In your opinion, is the best use of the HEP equipment - which will be the only equipment not subject to speed restrictions at level crossings - 7-car trains? Even though 7-car sets are the only type of train where Siemens sets would be able to operate without speed restrictions?

 

[Bordercollie]

I don't think equipment allocation is an unquestionable law of the universe. When they originally made the fleet plan there were no restrictions on Siemens trains. Now there are. It makes sense to revisit the fleet allocation to minimize impacts on the people who are still riding Via for some reason, and to recapture riders (such as me) who have completely given up on Via due to its now chronic unreliability.

In your opinion, is the best use of the HEP equipment - which will be the only equipment not subject to speed restrictions at level crossings - 7-car trains? Even though 7-car sets are the only type of train where Siemens sets would be able to operate without speed restrictions?

The problem with 7 car trains is you will need to cycle cab cars and locomotives since the wear and tear will be different.
But today since they are out of service that's okay but once it's fixed what do they do? Would it not be better to J train all trains going east? At least the wear and tear will be even. But the extra axles and fuel is a waste. At least it's less work to cycle full train sets rather than breaking up can cars and locomotives and swapping them out.

 

[Trackside_Treasure]

The problem with 7 car trains is you will need to cycle cab cars and locomotives since the wear and tear will be different.
But today since they are out of service that's okay but once it's fixed what do they do? Would it not be better to J train all trains going east? At least the wear and tear will be even. But the extra axles and fuel is a waste. At least it's less work to cycle full train sets rather than breaking up can cars and locomotives and swapping them out.

That would mean giving up some eastbound slots that CN has graciously and magnanimously given to VIA - and due to the Train Services Agreement currently in discussion, is something VIA is wont to do.

Back in the eighties, CN kept a switcher and crew, plus carmen, at Brockville to build westbound trains when eastbounds were analogous to today's eastbound J-trains. Today, CN will rarely send out rescue units, never mind marshalling trains en route for VIA with its scant Human Resources.

CN's doublavays (60/50 and 62/52) were an innovative way to use Venture trains (combining them was initially VIA said they would never do due to safety concerns) and this type of innovation should be used by VIA more often!!

 

[Bordercollie]

That would mean giving up some eastbound slots that CN has graciously and magnanimously given to VIA - and due to the Train Services Agreement currently in discussion, is something VIA is wont to do.

Back in the eighties, CN kept a switcher and crew, plus carmen, at Brockville to build westbound trains when eastbounds were analogous to today's eastbound J-trains. Today, CN will rarely send out rescue units, never mind marshalling trains en route for VIA with its scant Human Resources.

CN's doublavays (60/50 and 62/52) were an innovative way to use Venture trains (combining them was initially VIA said they would never do due to safety concerns) and this type of innovation should be used by VIA more often!!

Could they get the ontime performance to be good enough to meet at Brockville going westbound? And J the trains there to Toronto?

 

[smallspy]

I don't think equipment allocation is an unquestionable law of the universe. When they originally made the fleet plan there were no restrictions on Siemens trains. Now there are.

You're right - the allocations shouldn't be seen as immutable law.

But neither should CN's ridiculous operating and "safety" tactics.

They will go away eventually. Regardless of anything else, the state of VIA's long-term health depends on it. And at that point, 5-car Siemens sets will then become the norm in the Corridor and operate as they were always intended to. And the HEP2 sets will be used on certain specific trains where it makes sense to.

Dan

 

[reaperexpress]

You're right - the allocations shouldn't be seen as immutable law.

But neither should CN's ridiculous operating and "safety" tactics.

They will go away eventually. Regardless of anything else, the state of VIA's long-term health depends on it. And at that point, 5-car Siemens sets will then become the norm in the Corridor and operate as they were always intended to. And the HEP2 sets will be used on certain specific trains where it makes sense to.

Yes they will go away eventually, but that is clearly not happening imminently. In the meantime, if Via has any respect for its customers, it will make adjustments to minimize the impacts of the ridiculous speed restrictions. The financial compensation they might win from CN in a court case by demonstrating their drop in OTP will not come anywhere close to recovering the loss in revenue caused by destroying what little confidence the public still had in Via's ability to provide service.