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just east of the creek said:
Any structure with a minimum of 4 walls, a roof, utility services, and access to the rail lines in question, and is of the required square footage can be retrofitted. It is ‘just’ $’s…..
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That final part is more the question I mean.With enough money, anything is possible. My question is more about is it a practical option? For example, there is a disused CPKC yard in Montreal. Could it be converted into an assembly plant. Could, after the rolling stock is built be converted to a maintenance facility for that new fleet? And would it be something that would not be horrendously overpriced that it would be worth doing? Realistically, it takes several years to build out a contract. By the time the last car is built, the first cars will need maintenance over a light, regular maintenance that would be done. Is there anywhere in the world this has been done that we can compare the costs?
 
Again: there is no guarantee that a new facility on Canadian soil would win any contracts* (let alone: be able to ever recover its initial capital cost), so why would any sane investor invest in it?

*especially the ability to win US-based contracts is more in doubt than ever
 
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Urban Sky said:
Again: there is no guarantee that a new facility would win any contracts (let alone: be able to ever recover its initial capital cost), so why would any sane investor invest in it?
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That is why I asked whether it would work or not. Using the ~500 car LDF as an example, would the money given to build them, and then the contract to maintain them be enough to make the construction of a new facility and the conversion of it to a maintenance facility pay off?
 
If they can build bi-level car bodies in Thunder Bay, could they not build locomotives if all of the components are shipped there? You just need a jig to build the frame and locomotive car body. The engine and other components are shipped and assembled into the final product.
 
Bordercollie said:
If they can build bi-level car bodies in Thunder Bay, could they not build locomotives if all of the components are shipped there? You just need a jig to build the frame and locomotive car body. The engine and other components are shipped and assembled into the final product.
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What do they do, ship the engine back and forth until it works right?

Seems like a way to build a lemon to me.
 
nfitz said:
What do they do, ship the engine back and forth until it works right?

Seems like a way to build a lemon to me.
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A car assembly plant does not d that, so why would a locomotive assembly do that? Assume they build 20 units.The engines would come assembled and already known to work. So, it then arrives and then gets put in place according to the manufacturer specifications.That is no different than how it works at car assembly plants.
 
The point that seems to be missed by some is that - while one can set up a production line to manufacture locomotives and railcars just about anywhere (with enough money) - the return on doing so for only a small number of units produced, with no clear prospect of continued orders and production, is simply not something investors will back. And if that facility is model specific or order specific, it makes the investment that much riskier.

A customer, if desperate, may be willing to roll that investment into the purchase price for their custom order.... but that's not really good for the people funding the order (ie the taxpayers).

That's why the RFP process going into these orders is so lengthy and complicated - the buyer is often asking the market, what can you build at what price? It's not like picking an auto off the lot, with lots to choose from.

I don't know how many orders or prospective orders Siemens collected before they set up in Sacramento, but it may have been beyond the volume that we would see attracting a competing shop in Ontario. HxR will not create a demand for trainsets on a level that would imply investing in an ongoing facility.....unless other customers indicate they are willing to buy the same model.

Other builders such as Hornell and Elmira seem to have attracted orders, but both have had layoffs and shutdowns along the way. Rochelle tried and failed.

It also helps to have a ready to build design in mind. Siemens had a head start with European models that could be NorthAmericanised.

A vendor might - might - offer to set up a finishing shop locally as a sweetener to their HxR proposal, but not necessarily. That might adversely affect their pricing.

And thinking that one shop can meet all foreseen VIA and provincial transit needs economically is also naive. Each product will need its own production line, and that creates startup cost for each order. And the market rules lean towards free trade, meaning each procurement will have to accept bids from all over.

- Paul
 
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crs1026 said:
The point that seems to be missed by some is that - while one can set up a production line to manufacture locomotives and railcars just about anywhere (with enough money) - the return on doing so for only a small number of units produced, with no clear prospect of continued orders and production, is simply not something investors will back. And if that facility is model specific or order specific, it makes the investment that much riskier.

A customer, if desperate, may be willing to roll that investment into the purchase price for their custom order.... but that's not really good for the people funding the order (ie the taxpayers).

That's why the RFP process going into these orders is so lengthy and complicated - the buyer is often asking the market, what can you build at what price? It's not like picking an auto off the lot, with lots to choose from.

I don't know how many orders or prospective orders Siemens collected before they set up in Sacramento, but it may have been beyond the volume that we would see attracting a competing shop in Ontario. HxR will not create a demand for trainsets on a level that would imply investing in an ongoing facility.....unless other customers indicate they are willing to buy the same model.

Other builders such as Hornell and Elmira seem to have attracted orders, but both have had layoffs and shutdowns along the way. Rochelle tried and failed.

It also helps to have a ready to build design in mind. Siemens had a head start with European models that could be NorthAmericanised.

A vendor might - might - offer to set up a finishing shop locally as a sweetener to their HxR proposal, but not necessarily. That might adversely affect their pricing.

And thinking that one shop can meet all foreseen VIA and provincial transit needs economically is also naive. Each product will need its own production line, and that creates startup cost for each order. And the market rules lean towards free trade, meaning each procurement will have to accept bids from all over.

- Paul
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Wouldn't CAD have facilities to assemble a locomotive?
 
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