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Kyle Campbell said:
At 111 for the monthly 1 zone pass, that still puts Vancouver towards the cheaper end of things

I guess the TTC really relies on that higher pass price. In Ottawa ever since they introduced fare capping I'm not sure anyone even bothers to prepay for a pass now, I sure don't.
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The TTC is terrified of making any changes to their fare structure. A few years ago they fought against 2 hour transfers despite proof it caused more ridership on St Clair (the one place they had it) because they were convinced it would be bad for financials if it was expanded to the whole City. Despite basically every other major City in Canada using 2 hour transfers by then.

The TTC probably could benefit from a more affordable monthly pass, but they will never willingly take that risk. It will only happen if Council forces it to happen.
 
Vancouver's operational deficit is, as noted above, $600 million annually and so far the province has refused to come up with more money. They simply don't have it and the province just suffered another downgrade in it's credit rating just last week and the 4th in 4 years.

A big part of the problems are A} Vancouver has very low property taxes as that makes real estate speculation and/or money laundering far more profitable and Vancouver relies on it's housing sector to prop up the economy. Vancouver is an exceptionally highly stratified city and when it comes to urban planning amongst the most restrictive you will find in the country. Those with houses completely dominate the city's political landscape which is already quite conservative. B} Translink has based a lot of it's revenue on gas taxes which is why we have the highest prices in NA. The province has also encouraged EV adoption. They have encouraged less gasoline usage yet simultaneously banked on more money from it's gas taxes to balance the books. If those 2 things seem at odds with each other it's because they are.

The money Vancouver just got from the feds is over 10 years and so it is mere pennies on the dollar and they have already flatly stated that it will mean higher fares and vastly lower service to the tune of nearly 35% across the board.
 
ssiguy2 said:
A big part of the problems are A} Vancouver has very low property taxes as that makes real estate speculation and/or money laundering far more profitable and Vancouver relies on it's housing sector to prop up the economy. Vancouver is an exceptionally highly stratified city and when it comes to urban planning amongst the most restrictive you will find in the country. Those with houses completely dominate the city's political landscape which is already quite conservative. B} Translink has based a lot of it's revenue on gas taxes which is why we have the highest prices in NA. across the board.
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Or higher property taxes. Though if the calculator I found is correct, plugging in the average Vancouver price of $1,173,000 - the municipal property tax is $3,482 for 2024.

For Toronto, the city publishes the (2015 assessed) average house price as $694,381 and using the residential rate for municipal taxes of 0.5623% you get $3,904. Which is a bit higher than Vancouver - though not shockingly. (Toronto property tax above doesn't include the 0.153% education tax that goes to the province - as they don't have that in BC - that would add $1,062 to the $3,904 Toronto tax bill to get $4,968. Part of the reason Toronto property tax rates look higher is that it includes a provincial portion and the city portion).

Part of Translink's issue is that unlike in Ontario, they run the entire municipal bus system for most of (where the people live) in British Columbia. So it becomes much more difficult to handle funding, without the province simply taking on all the funding responsibilities - which is how Metrolinx works.
 
nfitz said:
Or higher property taxes. Though if the calculator I found is correct, plugging in the average Vancouver price of $1,173,000 - the municipal property tax is $3,482 for 2024.

For Toronto, the city publishes the (2015 assessed) average house price as $694,381 and using the residential rate for municipal taxes of 0.5623% you get $3,904. Which is a bit higher than Vancouver - though not shockingly. (Toronto property tax above doesn't include the 0.153% education tax that goes to the province - as they don't have that in BC - that would add $1,062 to the $3,904 Toronto tax bill to get $4,968. Part of the reason Toronto property tax rates look higher is that it includes a provincial portion and the city portion).

Part of Translink's issue is that unlike in Ontario, they run the entire municipal bus system for most of (where the people live) in British Columbia. So it becomes much more difficult to handle funding, without the province simply taking on all the funding responsibilities - which is how Metrolinx works.
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That's definitely fairly low

That same assessed value would put you at 6978 in Mississauga, and 9021 in Ottawa (although a more realistic average assessment it Ottawa would put you more at 5500-5800)

Generally the larger the city, the lower the tax rate, since the tax base is so much bigger. Still for it's size, that's quite low for Vancouver
 
Kyle Campbell said:
That's definitely fairly low

That same assessed value would put you at 6978 in Mississauga, and 9021 in Ottawa (although a more realistic average assessment it Ottawa would put you more at 5500-5800)

Generally the larger the city, the lower the tax rate, since the tax base is so much bigger. Still for it's size, that's quite low for Vancouver
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The tax rate has no relevance. Cities don't choose a tax rate. They choose a budget, and then budget by the tax base, each year, to get the rate.

They key amount is what each household pays. If everyone's house value doubled over night, city income wouldn't change, as the tax rates would be cut in half. It doesn't cost a city to service a house any more and any differently because it's worth double it's neighbour (assuming the lot size is unchanged).

If anything, a $1 million Toronto house, that is 1,000 square feet, on a postage stamp lot, will cost less total $ for the city compared to a $500,000 house in the outer suburbs on a half-acre. Simply the amount of road and sidewalk that needs to be maintained and plowed is so much bigger for each house.
 
You are confusing assessments and the tax rate. The provinces determine the assessed value of you home and then the tax rate is reflected upon that in relation to other properties assessments. If a house is 100k and another 200k, then they will pay property taxes. Next year if both properties go up by 50%, their property taxes stay the same. The difference is when City Hall DECIDES to raise property taxes for, as an example, 10%. This means both the $100k and $200k home's property taxes will both go up by that standard 10%, The property tax RATE is decided by the individual cities themselves which is why you can a stark difference in property taxes from one city to another in the same province or even right next door.

The province determines how much your home is worth but it is the cities themselves that determined how much tax your are going to pay on them and in Vancouver's case, it is very little which is one of the reasons why Translink is facing such a huge operating deficit.
 
ssiguy2 said:
You are confusing assessments and the tax rate. The provinces determine the assessed value of you home and then the tax rate is reflected upon that in relation to other properties assessments. If a house is 100k and another 200k, then they will pay property taxes. Next year if both properties go up by 50%, their property taxes stay the same. The difference is when City Hall DECIDES to raise property taxes for, as an example, 10%. This means both the $100k and $200k home's property taxes will both go up by that standard 10%, The property tax RATE is decided by the individual cities themselves which is why you can a stark difference in property taxes from one city to another in the same province or even right next door.

The province determines how much your home is worth but it is the cities themselves that determined how much tax your are going to pay on them and in Vancouver's case, it is very little which is one of the reasons why Translink is facing such a huge operating deficit.
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TransLink also has a much more complicated funding model then say the TTC, or Metrolinx. Do the municipalities contribute their share equally on a per resident basis or is there some unevenness?
 
ssiguy2 said:
You are confusing assessments and the tax rate. The provinces determine the assessed value of you home and then the tax rate is reflected upon that in relation to other properties assessments. If a house is 100k and another 200k, then they will pay property taxes. Next year if both properties go up by 50%, their property taxes stay the same. The difference is when City Hall DECIDES to raise property taxes for, as an example, 10%. This means both the $100k and $200k home's property taxes will both go up by that standard 10%, The property tax RATE is decided by the individual cities themselves which is why you can a stark difference in property taxes from one city to another in the same province or even right next door.

The province determines how much your home is worth but it is the cities themselves that determined how much tax your are going to pay on them and in Vancouver's case, it is very little which is one of the reasons why Translink is facing such a huge operating deficit.
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I see no contradiction between in what you say and what I say.

Or how that would make Vancouver property taxes very low. The rate itself is a red herring. Obviously going to be much higher in a place where the average house is $100,000 compared to $500,000 given the city needs a similar total amount per similar house.

Yes, some inequity to those more central in a very large city, with significant variations from downtown to the sticks.
 
I found a better dataset the BC government uses for tax burden using a representative home, and that actually shows things are opposite to what I thought. Given that, there's probably not much room in people's pockets to pay more on property taxes.

The "very low" comment was for an amount in the 3.4k range. Average property taxes in most cities (total amount, not rate) usually work out higher, in the 5-7k range


 
officedweller said:

First of 47 new generation Mark V trains enter service on SkyTrain​

dailyhive.com

First of 47 new generation Mark V trains enter service on SkyTrain | Urbanized

TransLink's very first new generation Mark V train on SkyTrain's Expo and Millennium lines has entered service.
dailyhive.com dailyhive.com
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A few pics from the above, though not all, as there are many! (credit Kenneth Chan)

Interior:

1752591338748.png


1752591394786.png


Comments: Seating is a bit sparse, they kept tranverse seats, but they are mostly singles, rather than doubles in favour wider aisles.

Lighting is still better than anything in Toronto, but not as nice as the previous generation of SkyTrains

Front/Back:

1752591559183.png


Comments: With no cabs in these you get a pod of group seats at the rail fan window.

1752591656145.png

Comments:

Over the door maps are backlit and interactive/changing.

Exterior:

1752591776621.png
 
Northern Light said:
View attachment 666280
Comments:

Over the door maps are backlit and interactive/changing.
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Glad they have the whole Canada Line map with all the stations alongside the Millennium/Expo now.

For the first few years, Van was doing that silly thing that some cities with multiple RT technologies do in that they often differentiated Skytrain from the Canada Line.

They each use a different type of motor but riders don't care about that. They just care that the metro system is interconnected and uses the same fare system.
 
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