[urbanclient]

But who am I kidding, we won't do it because *cars*.

I've heard this tired argument at least 3 times over the past 6 months or so, not including this time, since it was implied.

No, getting crossing arms, which myself and many others would support in specific cases would not turn the streetcars into the Calgary CTrain or the Yamanote Line, nor is the infeasibility of this notion evidence of a Fordian car-brain conspiracy against transit. And if you think I'm a Ford bootlicker, check my last post on GO Transit below.

You unironically called the Yamanote Line an LRT when talking about Eglinton's surface section, which then makes the former almost equivalent to Toronto's streetcars... And the kicker is, you yourself have taken the Yamanote before. So you should know how different it is.

Why? Japan runs far more above ground than they do below ground, and it's arguably one of the fastest, most efficient systems in the world (despite multiple service operators). The Yamanote Line in runs with as little as a 2 minute headway, has street level crossings and is one of the busiest in the country. Functionally, it's pretty much the same as an LRT.

The problem in Toronto will be (and has always been) the sheer amount of priority given to cars, and not the need to bury stuff so it's out of the way of them.

Adjustments could have been made to the Eglinton to have it run more like the Yamanote or any other above ground rail with street crossings that runs with any level of efficiency. Priority has been given to cars, period. All decisions were made with cars in mind instead of people. Making it a subway would have made absolutely zero difference if cars were not given a veto over moving people quickly.

I'm sick and tired of this misinformation and false hope being spread. Politics are not the only thing holding back median running trams from reaching RER or metro-like average speeds: stop spacing comes to mind, among many other things. Yes, crossing arms would help. No, it's not solely car-brain conservatives holding back the streetcars from reaching light speed.

My hope is that less is done to subsidize suburban car owners, and more is done to make cars less necessary in Toronto. Most trips within the City are still done by car.

[...]

Not helped by the easy-out housing construction towards the Greenbelt. (Ford's donors are licking their chops right now).

[...]

And Doug Ford thought it would be smart to promise Lakeview GO in Mississauga, another sweetener for the suburbs.

Doug Ford promised to build a new local train station. Metrolinx says it’s a bad idea | Globalnews.ca

Last spring, the government announced it was granting zoning order to a Mississauga development, with a promise the move would also bring a new GO statin to the area.

globalnews.ca

People living in Downtown subsidize those living outside of Toronto in many ways, including GO.

So the income taxes of car-light downtowners tend to subsidize the roads used by others.

P.S. the Tube/London Underground is more above ground than it is "underground". Does that make it LRT too? Or is having one grade crossing the prerequisite to call something an LRT (hello, London LRT 𝖮̶𝗏̶𝖾̶𝗋̶𝗀̶𝗋̶𝗈̶𝗎̶𝗇̶𝖽̶) The Japanese/Koreans/British must love LRTs...

https://www.geofftech.co.uk/downloads/ActualUnderground.pdf

 

[zang]

I've heard this tired argument at least 3 times over the past 6 months or so, not including this time, since it was implied.

What I’m tired of is your entitlement to feeling like you can serially harass people on this site with whom you disagree.

You:
A) didn’t obviously care to read what I actually wrote
B) brought up an old grudge and felt the need to write not one, but two off-topic screeds about how I was so obviously wrong months ago because you took a pedantic absolutist approach to something I wrote; something you seem to have a very hard time letting go of.

There have been many people I’ve disagreed with on UT, and I’m sure many more that have disagreed with me. And yet, there only are a grand total of three accounts I have put on ignore in my 13 years on this site; you and two others. The other two were quite literally spam bots mass posting links to phishing sites that were showing up in multiple threads.

I put you on ignore months ago after you decided to harass me via PM about something else with which you disagreed, and continued to PM me well after I asked you to stop and leave me the eff alone.

Yes, my comment about wishing for a true block function on this site was directed specifically at you.

I will refrain in the future from making the mistake of daring to see what you’ve written about me.

In the meantime, I suggest seeking help for the narcissistic childishness with which you approach disagreements.

 

[urbanclient]

zang said: "I put you on ignore months ago after you decided to harass me via PM about something else with which you disagreed, and continued to PM me well after I asked you to stop and leave me the eff alone."

Noone is forcing them to reply to me.

I messaged them once, one time on the same message thread because messages received/edits do not appear until the page is refreshed. Zang is resorting to lies and personal attacks over some petty disagreements about transit and politics.

Zang has consistently brought up the Yamanote line, (almost) equating it to a Toronto LRT.

They are allowed to hold that view. We are allowed to disagree. Again, noone is forcing them to reply to me.

 

[reaperexpress]

Could that not be mitigated by installing crossing arms at intersections to block the curb lane when a tram is at the stop? It also sounds like getting rid of right-on-red would also potentially help. Both together would do well for Vision Zero goals too.

Yes you could probably install crossing arms to do that, but that would be a weirdly expensive solution to a problem that could be more effectively solved by replacing the lane with a platform like they did on King and on Roncesvalles.

Getting rid of RTOR would help slightly but it doesn't change the fact that people can turn right on green.

 

[reaperexpress]

Yeah, why not? Charge drivers breaking them with a fine equivalent of repair costs. No need for traffic cameras when the streetcars themselves have them.

But who am I kidding, we won't do it because *cars*.

*Cars* are the reason we *would* go through the expense of maintaining barriers to enable cars to drive through the streetcar platform, rather than using that space to create a safe and comfortable waiting area for passengers.

Removing the curb lane would be a hard sell at major intersections but on the lighter-traffic portions of the network like Howard Park or Queen St east of Woodbine, it would be a very straightforward and effective solution.

 

[zang]

*Cars* are the reason we *would* go through the expense of maintaining barriers to enable cars to drive through the streetcar platform, rather than using that space to create a safe and comfortable waiting area for passengers.

Removing the curb lane would be a hard sell at major intersections but on the lighter-traffic portions of the network like Howard Park or Queen St east of Woodbine, it would be a very straightforward and effective solution.

Hey, I agree. I love how King is, and if we're going to maintain middle-lane streetcar tracks, all multilane routes should be that way. I was merely spitballing that there could be a solution that would be more likely to placate Doug Ford and anyone else who'd aim to put the kibosh on it because they think it's more important that Steve from Oakville gets to shave 2 minutes off his commute.