[txlseries4]

It appears the TTC has a plan to handle the crowds during the World Cup but won't say what it is.

My gut tells me it will be a complete gong show.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ttc-plans-for-fifa-tournament-9.7133857

But Joe Mihevc, another member of the TTC board, said the transit agency is not behind schedule on sharing plans. He said a dedicated team has been working for months on a comprehensive plan that will be announced “very shortly.”

How do you read this and your takeaway is that they won’t say what the plan is?

 

[generalcanada]

I mean, you can have a comprehensive plan. but it still could be a complete gongshow. like imagine if go trains had a shutdown or something. or the streetcar got shutdown for some reason.

 

[txlseries4]

I mean, you can have a comprehensive plan. but it still could be a complete gongshow. like imagine if go trains had a shutdown or something. or the streetcar got shutdown for some reason.

I was addressing their framing that the TTC "won't say what it is", but I quoted their whole comment and it wasn't obvious I was only replying to that. Oops.

Certainly the plan could be terrible. Hopefully with the Raptors parade failure and successes with this year's NYE, even those were just 1 day events, TTC and the City should have a lot of lessons learned from at least the aspect of ingress and egress at key times. But I firmly believe whatever could go wrong in Toronto will be dwarfed by whatever circus happens in the USA

 

[zang]

It is not that the TTC "won't" say what the plan is, it is that they have not yet done so. It will be released shortly, it may well be poorly thought out but let's at least TRY to be optimistic.

Making the entirety of the downtown (bordered by Bathurst/Bloor/Parliament) temporarily off limits to private vehicles would go a damn long way. But that’s not in the TTC’s ability to do.

 

[DSCToronto]

But Joe Mihevc, another member of the TTC board, said the transit agency is not behind schedule on sharing plans. He said a dedicated team has been working for months on a comprehensive plan that will be announced “very shortly.”

How do you read this and your takeaway is that they won’t say what the plan is?

Because some posters here have set views and the facts seem to make little difference.

 

[Richard White]

Because some posters here have set views and the facts seem to make little difference.

Have they said what the plan is? No.

Will they? Yes but they haven't yet.

 

[nfitz]

It appears the TTC has a plan to handle the crowds during the World Cup but won't say what it is.

My gut tells me it will be a complete gong show.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ttc-plans-for-fifa-tournament-9.7133857

I really don't see how a single soccer game at a relatively small stadium with a crowd of 45,000 is going to be a massive challenge. How's this different than the same number and huge crowds outdoors at Skydome for the 2025 World Series. They didn't have years to plan that, and it went fine ... except the 11-inning game 7 that didn't end until after midnight, with the post-game ceremonies, etc., going to about 1 AM, where GO Transit failed to run trains late enough, and even TTC could have extended the subways a bit more. But was there any traffic or other effects north of King Street, or west of Spadina?

I don't think we'll be having 4-hour soccer games. And 35,000 to 40,000 people events certainly haven't caused much issue at BMO Field in the past - even though GO service has been improved since then.

I can't see all the fuss really, outside of some security improvements. Do we really need temporary HOV lanes on the Gardiner (I'll take permanent ones though!)

 

[zang]

I really don't see how a single soccer game at a relatively small stadium with a crowd of 45,000 is going to be a massive challenge. How's this different than the same number and huge crowds outdoors at Skydome for the 2025 World Series. They didn't have years to plan that, and it went fine ... except the 11-inning game 7 that didn't end until after midnight, with the post-game ceremonies, etc., going to about 1 AM, where GO Transit failed to run trains late enough, and even TTC could have extended the subways a bit more. But was there any traffic or other effects north of King Street, or west of Spadina?

I don't think we'll be having 4-hour soccer games. And 35,000 to 40,000 people events certainly haven't caused much issue at BMO Field in the past - even though GO service has been improved since then.

I can't see all the fuss really, outside of some security improvements. Do we really need temporary HOV lanes on the Gardiner (I'll take permanent ones though!)

Arguably with the WS, the majority of fans in the stadium will have been people that live within a few hours of Toronto, then head back home after the event. FIFA WC is a much bigger beast that draws in people from all over the planet; it gets bigger viewership than the Olympics and absolutely dwarves "local" events like the Superbowl.

 

[Jonny5]

Arguably with the WS, the majority of fans in the stadium will have been people that live within a few hours of Toronto, then head back home after the event. FIFA WC is a much bigger beast that draws in people from all over the planet; it gets bigger viewership than the Olympics and absolutely dwarves "local" events like the Superbowl.

Yes. There's a couple issues here of concern.

1. Many people attending will be tourists who know almost nothing about Toronto, and will have difficulty figuring out where they are supposed to go and how to get there. They also may not speak English at all, so they cannot simply get quick assistance on directions by asking someone. There will no doubt be a lot of bottlenecks of pedestrian flow from this.
   
   
2. There will also be thousands, if not ten thousand visiting fans who come here with tickets for only one single game, or no tickets at all, but still want the whole "experience" of all the games (get ready for hundreds of obnoxious social media influencers everywhere you go,) so I would expect there will be thousands of foreigners in town for the whole thing, descending on places like Liberty Village and any other sports bars downtown where they will no doubt have the games on and they can at least watch it there, or head over to the Ex grounds so they can hear it. This is definitely a thing that happens for the World Cup.

 

[nfitz]

Yes. There's a couple issues here of concern.

1. Many people attending will be tourists who know almost nothing about Toronto, and will have difficulty figuring out where they are supposed to go and how to get there. They also may not speak English at all, so they cannot simply get quick assistance on directions by asking someone. There will no doubt be a lot of bottlenecks of pedestrian flow from this.
   
   
2. There will also be thousands, if not ten thousand visiting fans who come here with tickets for only one single game, or no tickets at all, but still want the whole "experience" of all the games (get ready for hundreds of obnoxious social media influencers everywhere you go,) so I would expect there will be thousands of foreigners in town for the whole thing, descending on places like Liberty Village and any other sports bars downtown where they will no doubt have the games on and they can at least watch it there, or head over to the Ex grounds so they can hear it. This is definitely a thing that happens for the World Cup.

Fair enough - though no teams will have multiple games in Toronto, so lots will be transient.

Still I don't think there'll be many issues, especially with the (over!) preparedness.

Even for a regular TFC match today at BMO Field, there I counted 7 GO staff, 2 police, and 3 hired security - just at the GO station! And there were no trains today, with the platforms partitioned off! Probably TTC staff at Exhibition loop too, I'd assume.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

It does seem like the TTC is sleepwalking into the World Cup events. The most concerning I would say is their over confidence that the streetcar network can handle the crowds. We all know that this is far from reality. They can’t even run extra streetcars without blowing the electrical grid.

Considering where the BMO Field is located, there’s not as many high capacity transit alternatives. Heck even on Canadian Exhibition days the TTC struggles; it just that it’s brushed under the carpet cause it’s a local level event. Whereas the Skydome (yes I chose to call it that) is next multiple high capacity transit options that can relieve the area quickly and through many routes.

 

[nfitz]

Considering where the BMO Field is located, there’s not as many high capacity transit alternatives. Heck even on Canadian Exhibition days the TTC struggles; it just that it’s brushed under the carpet cause it’s a local level event. Whereas the Skydome (yes I chose to call it that) is next multiple high capacity transit options that can relieve the area quickly and through many routes.

There's more capacity for streetcars at Dufferin Gate loop than they usually use, even after matches. And generally they go as fast as they overload them at Exhibition loop after a match; with only half going up Bathurst there's a limit on how many they can run.

I'm not sure which section of Bathurst track that the wire that shorted during the CNE at King and Shaw feeds, how that particular section was loaded, and how that compares to the rest of the system. I'd assume they'll have figured out the weak spots by now, and will be careful to now put too many cars in those sections.

 

[DSCToronto]

There's more capacity for streetcars at Dufferin Gate loop than they usually use, even after matches. And generally they go as fast as they overload them at Exhibition loop after a match; with only half going up Bathurst there's a limit on how many they can run.

I'm not sure which section of Bathurst track that the wire that shorted during the CNE at King and Shaw feeds, how that particular section was loaded, and how that compares to the rest of the system. I'd assume they'll have figured out the weak spots by now, and will be careful to now put too many cars in those sections.

Your optimism is good to see but the fact that the TTC failed to deal with the Bathurst power problem before it caused any cancellations is really not a great vote of confidence in their knowledge about their system or their ability to plan and execute change.

 

[APTA-2048]

Didn’t they run express buses to the CNE to add capacity to the Bathurst corridor? I would imagine they could do that again.

 

[nfitz]

Your optimism is good to see but the fact that the TTC failed to deal with the Bathurst power problem before it caused any cancellations is really not a great vote of confidence in their knowledge about their system or their ability to plan and execute change.

I'd think there was some right-hand and left-hand. Operations weren't in the know clearly. But the department that deals with the overhead, I'd guess, that someone was aware of generally what the limits were. If it was me I'd have made a single low-key vague warning, and then sat back and thought "this will be an interesting experiment".

King and Queen have both been stressed to death in recent years, without similar issues. I can't imagine that they won't be more aware.

Was there a final determination on this? At the time, TTC said that they were still investigating, although they did know that the extra service would have stressed this location.