JBR
Active Member
It’s storage for materials
Probably cheaper to retrofit the site for buses vs buying land and building brand new within the same proximity to downtown.
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- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
Probably cheaper to retrofit the site for buses vs buying land and building brand new within the same proximity to downtown.
Steve X
Senior Member
I really don't understand why are we even discussing the needs of a downtown garage in 2025. Unlike NYC or Montreal, the primary surface transit node are streetcars.
The 19 Bay itself operates with a maximum of 4 buses in the afternoon. Gone are the pre-pandemic days where a couple dozen buses flock the route.
The 65 Parliament operates with 6 buses max.
The 75 Sherbourne operates with 10 buses max.
The 94 Wellesley operates with 9 buses max.
The 97C Yonge branch operates with 3 buses.
The 114 Queens Quay East bus operates with 8 buses max.
The 121 Esplanade-River operates with 4 buses max.
Add the seasonal 202 Cherry Beach with 3 buses and throw in 20 buses for streetcar shuttles, it sums up to 67 buses. Add 20% spare ratio and it's up to 90 buses.
TTC wants to build a big garage with 250-300 buses. Building one downtown would mean 200+ buses are going to deadhead out of downtown traffic as they are not even needed there. That's a BS about of wasted resources to operate the garage on top an expensive BS proposal. Even if TTC builds a small garage, they still need to build another garage elsewhere. So this discussion is frankly quite naive and not well thought. TTC could use a new HQ more than a new downtown garage.
The 19 Bay itself operates with a maximum of 4 buses in the afternoon. Gone are the pre-pandemic days where a couple dozen buses flock the route.
The 65 Parliament operates with 6 buses max.
The 75 Sherbourne operates with 10 buses max.
The 94 Wellesley operates with 9 buses max.
The 97C Yonge branch operates with 3 buses.
The 114 Queens Quay East bus operates with 8 buses max.
The 121 Esplanade-River operates with 4 buses max.
Add the seasonal 202 Cherry Beach with 3 buses and throw in 20 buses for streetcar shuttles, it sums up to 67 buses. Add 20% spare ratio and it's up to 90 buses.
TTC wants to build a big garage with 250-300 buses. Building one downtown would mean 200+ buses are going to deadhead out of downtown traffic as they are not even needed there. That's a BS about of wasted resources to operate the garage on top an expensive BS proposal. Even if TTC builds a small garage, they still need to build another garage elsewhere. So this discussion is frankly quite naive and not well thought. TTC could use a new HQ more than a new downtown garage.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
I think Rogers has turned on 5G in random tunnels including Finch to Sheppard and Spadina to St Clair W. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
ALao there is now a Tim's in the fair paid area at Sheppard Yonge where Starbucks used to be.
ALao there is now a Tim's in the fair paid area at Sheppard Yonge where Starbucks used to be.
81-717
Active Member
I still remember when there was a Cinnabon there. The best thing they had were churros, no idea why those were only around for a very short time before being discontinued & never seen again.
Edit: stopped by Dufferin mall today, and noticed that the local Cinnabon place did have churros now, which are pretty good but without filling (the ones i remember from like 20 years ago had apple jam stuffing or something like that)
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littlewill1166
Active Member
I did the training a couple of years ago. It doesn't really help other than make you feel like you're walking on eggshells every time you interact with the public.
drum118
Superstar
I stand to be corrected, but the Danforth garage site is to be redevelop as a mixed-use site with plans in place for it
drum118
Superstar
DSCToronto
Superstar
Familiar UTer to be congratulated! https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tt...cle_eee4de0d-946e-40d8-b29d-66a3086c12fd.html
Richard White
Senior Member
Thank you for highlighting the article!
She reached out to me earlier this week after seeing my reddit post. Oddly enough this is the second Toronto Star article I have been featured in, the first was about the RT.
Northern Light
Superstar
The plans are on indefinite hold since the police pulled out of the plan.
Danforth could easily operate as 'light' garage (without heavy repair operations) for the next few years and save a lot on deadheading, while providing better response time to subway shutdowns.
Northern Light
Superstar
I think you need to think more broadly, in geographic terms.
There is no operating garage in the entire old City of Toronto. Every last one was shuttered, Danforth, Eglinton (at Yonge), Lansdowne, and Parkdale.
The result is a massive deadhead time, not just for the core routes, but most services in the core east end, in Don Mills, and a many other places.
The absence of a garage closer to the core is part of the reason for anemically slow response times to subway shutdowns that require shuttles.
As noted in posts above, a new garage is not necessary, Danforth is available to reactivate, with or without heavy repair functions. There is also plenty of space at the former Eglinton Site (Yonge) though that will surely be developed, plans are on hold for now, and much of the former garage space is there, along with a vast empty lot.
Drum's suggestion about a better use for the Commissioner's site could also make sense.
****
As a separate, but related issue, the TTC's inefficient operation of buses creates an artificial suggestion of the need of more (rather than differently located) garage space.
The TTC should not ever need to operate more than 11 garages in the City. Queensway could be enlarged/replaced, but in general, the TTC wastes about 25% of the fleet through lousy operation/service planning and bad choices by Transportation services.
Add deadhead time to that for a bit extra.
Northern Light
Superstar
You spoke very well.
Your actions are the more important thing; you acquitted yourself very well and set an example others would do well to follow.
But you also managed to advocate for just that, I think, quite effectively.
On behalf of your fellow UT'ers, transit users and Torontonians, 'Job well done'!
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fiendishlibrarian
Active Member
There was also Davenport, small as it was, right behind Hillcrest, which closed in the early 1990s if I recall (my Dad briefly considered transferring there from Lansdowne). I highly doubt it could be reactivated unless it was extensively rebuilt commensurate with Hillcrest being modified to store 511/512 streetcars. Now that raises the question of whether Wychwood should have closed - I think it should have been kept - but that's moot now.
smallspy
Senior Member
One thing to consider though is that there are certain. fixed overhead costs regardless of the size of the facility.
When the TTC opened the Comstock Garage, they stated that those fixed overhead costs were a bit over $3mil / year - in 2001. Thus they cited an equivalent cost savings by using Comstock Garage to be able to close both old Eglinton and Danforth Garages, even though the actual system bus capacity didn't increase.
This is why they've been looking to build bigger facilities, and why every single one of them now (save for Queensway) is designed for handling about 275 buses. There simply aren't many plots of land that big in the old City of Toronto to build a new garage.
There had been an idea a while back to convert Lakeshore into a regular garage and then spread out the Wheel-Trans fleet around the City, but since they've moved to gasoline vehicles for Wheel-Trans (and the commensurate change of maintenance regimen and standards) they seem to have walked back from that. If course, the fact that the Lakeshore property is about half of the size of any of the modern garages (and only a bit bigger than Danforth) probably didn't hurt in making that decision.
Care to elaborate?
Dan
Northern Light
Superstar
Agree w/everything here; strictly on operating costs, I'd need to see the numbers for longer deadheads. I don't have a number for that higher fixed cost but is a consideration.
Of course, rapid response to shutdowns is a less tangible benefit, but one that also is limited by how many spare board buses and operators are available on any given shift at any given facility.
Sure.
I'm off today, so let me roll through some data and work out how to post it.