[Amare]

What people have a problem with is extending the subway into York Region while there are still many parts of Toronto without rapid transit. On top of that, York Region doesn’t help pay for operations of the subway.

Oh and on top of that, York Region seems to see higher order public transit as a status symbol more than anything else.

Exactly this. York Region cant even properly increase frequencies on their bus routes enough to so it's actually a competent and at least semi-reliable transit service, while VIVA remains to be a skeletal rapid transit service which isnt even utilized anywhere near to it's full potential.

But yet York Region is constantly the ones demanding for the subway to be extended because they "deserve rapid transit".

Frankly it's pretty comical that they're asking for billions to be spent on their dream subway, while they cant even spend millions to improve local service in the region. Meanwhile Torontonians have to deal with routes in many areas of the city that are rammed up to capacity with no improvements in sight, and additional buses can only do so much to address the capacity issues.

 

[ARG1]

Exactly this. York Region cant even properly increase frequencies on their bus routes enough to so it's actually a competent and at least semi-reliable transit service, while VIVA remains to be a skeletal rapid transit service which isnt even utilized anywhere near to it's full potential.

But yet York Region is constantly the ones demanding for the subway to be extended because they "deserve rapid transit".

Frankly it's pretty comical that they're asking for billions to be spent on their dream subway, while they cant even spend millions to improve local service in the region. Meanwhile Torontonians have to deal with routes in many areas of the city that are rammed up to capacity with no improvements in sight, and additional buses can only do so much to address the capacity issues.

Its interesting to write this when the section of Viva Blue that the subway is replacing runs every 7m all day (and that's just if you include Viva Blue, not including the half dozen other routes that share that corridor, which in practice looks more like 3-4m headways midday). I can agree that in general that York Region probably doesn't "deserve" subways given how shoddy the bus service is, however Yonge Street between Steeles and Highway 7 is one massive exception (and yes, I do mean to imply that the York Region section of the TYSSE wasn't strictly necessary). I think it also says a lot that Toronto leadership has always been adamant that the DRL/OL is a necessity before the YNSE happens. You'd think if the YNSE was a political vanity project replacing a skeletal bus service that surely it wouldn't cause significant problems for Line 1 capacity right?

 

[81-717]

however Yonge Street between Steeles and Highway 7 is one massive exception (and yes, I do mean to imply that the York Region section of the TYSSE wasn't strictly necessary)

However, Wonderland (a logical future "final destination") is located on the TYSSE alignment, not YNSE.

I think it also says a lot that Toronto leadership has always been adamant that the DRL/OL is a necessity before the YNSE happens. You'd think if the YNSE was a political vanity project replacing a skeletal bus service that surely it wouldn't cause significant problems for Line 1 capacity right?

Interesting that no such constraints affected TYSSE. Yes that side may have less ridership than the Yonge side, but you'd think it'd still contribute to increased usage of that side to get dt. Though again, apparently only a minority of TYSSE/YNSE users would actually be going all the way dt.

 

[ARG1]

However, Wonderland (a logical future "final destination") is located on the TYSSE alignment, not YNSE.

Tbh, unless you use the subway extension as an excuse to redevelop the Wonderland Parking lots, I don't see how it would be reasonable to extend the subway to serve a seasonal destination. Maybe you could argue that Cortellucci Hospital could be a counterbalance destination to warrant an extension, and maybe Vaughan Mills? However I'd still rank the priority to be incredibly low.

 

[Steve X]

Subways for within York Region travels is a non-starter. They'll spend more money maintaining it than being enough economical benefits. Everything is just too far apart and can't be located on one line. If you have to take a bus to the subway to take another bus, that's enough of a turnoff to justify not building it.

Riding the subway to Wonderland is such a joke. Weekdays usage would be near zero. Large families will definitely avoid transit Especially if each child had to pay a seperate fare (YRT doesn't have free under 12). I don't see many families would pay $20+ on transit and wait for infrequent service at night when they leave.

I rather see them extend the subway into Mississauga than further into Vaughan.

 

[picard102]

I was responding to a post which said that Toronto was wrong for putting its own needs first. That argument is inherently problematic because the suburban communities benefit a lot more from cross border transit than do Torontonians. if the suburban communities want cross border transit, it needs to fall to them to advocate for it, and pay for their fair share of it; there is no reason to slam Torontonians for not being interested in service to the suburbs and prioritizing projects built within the city.

Toronto is the primate city - all other communities surrounding it must conform to that reality, rather than expecting Toronto to worry about the fine grained details of everyone else's affairs.

Toronto benefits by removing vehicles from it's streets, and freeing up commuter lots inside Toronto for development.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I rather see them extend the subway into Mississauga than further into Vaughan.

I don't even want that - I'd rather have better GO service with good connection to the local transit network - because at some point the subway just isn't all that fast..

AoD

 

[turbanplanner]

I don't even want that - I'd rather have better GO service with good connection to the local transit network - because at some point the subway just isn't all that fast..

AoD

The subway would be slower but if you're anywhere north of the lakeshore the subway would likely be faster as you're not spending time going up and down.

 

[Mihairokov]

They probably have some sort of national standard. We can't even get systems in the same city to adopt a uniform signage standard.(heck, some can't even adopt a uniform signage standard intra-system).

AoD

Bringing this here so it's probably more relevant.

All of the standards are nationwide, so all of the cars are sourced from one of two companies, and they all have similar designs and builds. The stations are all designed the same so they have the same requirements on escalators, elevators, platform doors, etc. The one major thing that isn't national standard is the info boards and video boards inside of the cars which indicate next steps and provide safety messaging, and the platform video boards which all vary. For example:

Spoiler: China Metro Video Boards and Info

Some Shanghai Metro platforms and trains don't have video boards at all.

Shanghai Metro platform video board, times are for next train and third train arriving. Most Chinese Metro headways are 5minutes rush and 7minutes off.

Shanghai Metro has a ferry system which traverses the river in a number of places, providing connections mainly for moped drivers who cannot cross on large bridges or tunnels, or for tourists travelling between the Bund and Lujiazui. Because this is included in the Metro system the same charge is applied as a subway or bus (roughly $0.50-0.70, depending on the trip). Including this as it relates to Toronto for no reason whatsoever.

Speaking of Lujiazui!

I don't think i've ever seen so much greenspace in a "CBD" before. Something that both China and Japan do well, and something that we should definitely do more of, is raised pedestrian bridges to cross busy intersections and avenues. Where's my pedestrian bridge to cross Lakeshore?

Hangzhou Metro, station exit info, indicating which car you're in and which stair/escalator you're closest to, and which is ideal for which exit.

Hangzhou Metro indicates stations which are not open yet:

Wuhan Metro platform video boards, like all others, indicate time for the next train and the train after that.

Wuhan Metro in-car board is more busy and difficult to read at first glance.

Most metro systems will indicate the level of air conditioning on subway cars. In Harbin, they provide an indication of how busy the cars are and time of arrival for next train, second train, and third train.

Pointy trains at Beijing North Station. Don't think we have these.

Also checked out the Wuhan hanging monorail, which at this point is just showing off for the sake of showing off.

As with anything, I think we don't realize what we do or don't have until we see other systems and how they're doing things. In this regard I think TTC stacks up well against North American (and some European) systems, where the expectation for service seems to be the same. It's not a huge jump to go from TTC to NY, outside of the fact that the NY system is simply much larger, as the stations and trains and everything are fairly similar. It's when you go to Asia, at least from my impression this trip, that the quality and expectation raises substantially, and we really get a chance to see what we're lacking in our public infrastructure. Obviously there are going to be things that we cannot match on, like building large, widescale projects and lines, but on things like wayfinding, information, and general QOL I think we should strive to at least remain somewhat comparable. Last night I climbed the stairs out of King Station and had to slosh around through standing water as the drains on the stairs weren't draining, whereas in China they have staff putting out carpets and mats at station entrances on rainy days so people don't trail water inside...

Also, what happened to Barney Beaver? Every metro should have a cute mascot.

 

[drum118]

This will mess up some getting around for Open Door Weekend using transit

Upcoming scheduled subway closures and service adjustments

May 22, 2025

This Sat., May 24 and Sun., May 25, there will be no subway service on the portion of Line 1 Yonge-University between Sheppard-Yonge and College stations to accommodate planned track and state-of-good repair work.

Work will include the replacement of a major track switch at York Mills Station, as well as essential rail repairs and geotechnical survey work along the route.

A frequent shuttle bus service will run, stopping at each station along the shuttle route. Customers who require Wheel-Trans service can speak with any TTC customer service staff member for assistance.

Lawrence and Summerhill stations will be closed during this time. All other subway stations will remain open during the closure for customers to purchase PRESTO fares, tickets and connect to surface routes.

Monday to Friday – Early nightly subway closure between Sheppard-Yonge and College stations

Mon., May 26 through Fri., May 30, subway service on the portion of Line 1 Yonge-University between Sheppard-Yonge and College stations will end nightly at 11 p.m. to accommodate planned track work.

A frequent shuttle bus service will run, stopping at each station along the route. Customers who require Wheel-Trans service can speak with any TTC customer service staff member for assistance.

Lawrence and Summerhill stations will be closed. All other subway stations will remain open for customers to purchase PRESTO fares, tickets and connect to surface routes.

Monday to Thursday – Limited nightly service between Finch West and Pioneer Village Stations

Beginning at 11 p.m. nightly from Mon., May 26 to Thurs., May 29, there will be limited subway service on the portion of Line 1 between Finch West and Pioneer Village stations for planned tunnel work.

Customers can expect delays of up to 20 minutes if travelling through this area. Trains operating between Finch West and Pioneer Village will operate on a single track in both directions. Customers will need to change trains at Finch West Station to continue their journey northbound or southbound. Regular service will resume the following morning at 6 a.m.

While the TTC does most subway maintenance after service each night, it continues to require weekend and early weeknight closures to complete critical infrastructure and state-of-good-repair work.

Construction

From 11 p.m. on Sat., May 24 until 11 a.m. on Sun., May 25, the 66B Prince Edward will divert during bridge rehabilitation work at Park Lawn Rd. and Gardiner Expressway.

Events

On Sun., May 25 the following bus routes will divert during the Walk with Israel taking place along Wilson Ave. and Bathurst St.:

• 7 Bathurst (6 a.m. to 3:30 p.m.)
• 96 Wilson (6 a.m. to 12:30 p.m.)
• 160 Bathurst North (6 a.m. to 3:30 p.m.)
• 165 Weston Road North (6 a.m. to 12:30 p.m.)

Also on Sun., May 25 from 3 p.m. to 5:30 p.m., the Santo Cristo Festival will be taking place along Bathurst St. between Queen St. and King St. The TTC is advising customers there may be delays on the 511 Bathurst route as a result of the procession.

Road Closures

From 7 p.m. on Fri., May 23 until 7 a.m. on Sat., May 24, the following routes will divert to accommodate film crews working at Queens Quay and Dockside Dr.:

• 65 Parliament
• 75 Sherbourne
• 114 Queens Quay
• 202 Cherry Beach
• 365 Parliament

On Sun., May 25 from 6 a.m. to 11 p.m., the following routes will divert to accommodate film crews on Wellington St. between Simcoe and Yonge St.:

• 114 Queens Quay East
• 121 Esplanade-River
• 202 Cherry Beach
• 320 Yonge Night

The TTC is committed to keeping customers informed about work and events that impact service, as well as alternate route options. For the most up-to-date information, follow @TTCNotices on X or sign up for eAlerts.

 

[Steve X]

Bringing this here so it's probably more relevant.

All of the standards are nationwide, so all of the cars are sourced from one of two companies, and they all have similar designs and builds. The stations are all designed the same so they have the same requirements on escalators, elevators, platform doors, etc. The one major thing that isn't national standard is the info boards and video boards inside of the cars which indicate next steps and provide safety messaging, and the platform video boards which all vary. For example:

Spoiler: China Metro Video Boards and Info

Some Shanghai Metro platforms and trains don't have video boards at all.
View attachment 653151

Shanghai Metro platform video board, times are for next train and third train arriving. Most Chinese Metro headways are 5minutes rush and 7minutes off.
View attachment 653160

Shanghai Metro has a ferry system which traverses the river in a number of places, providing connections mainly for moped drivers who cannot cross on large bridges or tunnels, or for tourists travelling between the Bund and Lujiazui. Because this is included in the Metro system the same charge is applied as a subway or bus (roughly $0.50-0.70, depending on the trip). Including this as it relates to Toronto for no reason whatsoever.
View attachment 653154

Speaking of Lujiazui!
View attachment 653161

I don't think i've ever seen so much greenspace in a "CBD" before. Something that both China and Japan do well, and something that we should definitely do more of, is raised pedestrian bridges to cross busy intersections and avenues. Where's my pedestrian bridge to cross Lakeshore?
View attachment 653162

Hangzhou Metro, station exit info, indicating which car you're in and which stair/escalator you're closest to, and which is ideal for which exit.
View attachment 653164

Hangzhou Metro indicates stations which are not open yet:
View attachment 653153

Wuhan Metro platform video boards, like all others, indicate time for the next train and the train after that.
View attachment 653155

Wuhan Metro in-car board is more busy and difficult to read at first glance.
View attachment 653156

Most metro systems will indicate the level of air conditioning on subway cars. In Harbin, they provide an indication of how busy the cars are and time of arrival for next train, second train, and third train.
View attachment 653157

Pointy trains at Beijing North Station. Don't think we have these.
View attachment 653158

Also checked out the Wuhan hanging monorail, which at this point is just showing off for the sake of showing off.
View attachment 653159

As with anything, I think we don't realize what we do or don't have until we see other systems and how they're doing things. In this regard I think TTC stacks up well against North American (and some European) systems, where the expectation for service seems to be the same. It's not a huge jump to go from TTC to NY, outside of the fact that the NY system is simply much larger, as the stations and trains and everything are fairly similar. It's when you go to Asia, at least from my impression this trip, that the quality and expectation raises substantially, and we really get a chance to see what we're lacking in our public infrastructure. Obviously there are going to be things that we cannot match on, like building large, widescale projects and lines, but on things like wayfinding, information, and general QOL I think we should strive to at least remain somewhat comparable. Last night I climbed the stairs out of King Station and had to slosh around through standing water as the drains on the stairs weren't draining, whereas in China they have staff putting out carpets and mats at station entrances on rainy days so people don't trail water inside...

Also, what happened to Barney Beaver? Every metro should have a cute mascot.

The problem with North America is everyone in school just aims to pass courses with just a C or even D. If they beat the average, they are happy. When schools try to set curriculums to higher standards, parents complain their is too much homework and it's too hard. They proclaim As for for Aliens and thus they being this to everyday life and society. This is how York University Station with a huge concrete patch on the wall on opening day passed the test and was deem acceptable.

In East Asia, everyone aims for As and thus all the designs and plans are reflected in this mentality. How can we expect better when half the class graduating in this society just wing it and do the same in the workplace?

 

[nfitz]

The problem with North America is everyone in school just aims to pass courses with just a C or even D. If they beat the average, they are happy. When schools try to set curriculums to higher standards, parents complain their is too much homework and it's too hard. They proclaim As for for Aliens and thus they being this to everyday life and society. This is how York University Station with a huge concrete patch on the wall on opening day passed the test and was deem acceptable.

In East Asia, everyone aims for As and thus all the designs and plans are reflected in this mentality. How can we expect better when half the class graduating in this society just wing it and do the same in the workplace?

That was not the experience when I was engineering in Ontario, or trying to get into engineering.

And as my eldest is just starting, I'm well aware that the competition to get into engineering is huge. No one is getting in with a C ... or even a B. And I certainly don't remember parents having any input over engineering curriculum - which are governed by PEO.

Where did you do engineering Steve?

 

[chrisw]

Yeah, I think there's been grade inflation and an average in the mid 80s is not as competitive anymore.

 

[Steve X]

That was not the experience when I was engineering in Ontario, or trying to get into engineering.

And as my eldest is just starting, I'm well aware that the competition to get into engineering is huge. No one is getting in with a C ... or even a B. And I certainly don't remember parents having any input over engineering curriculum - which are governed by PEO.

Where did you do engineering Steve?

I was talking about the general public and high school, not UofT Engineering.

As far as engineering goes, the workplace is different from school. Many large companies will do bare minimum to fulfill the contracts. Can we all agree that if everyone did their best, the Crosstown would be open by now?

 

[nfitz]

Yeah, I think there's been grade inflation and an average in the mid 80s is not as competitive anymore.

That's certainly true - both for high school marks, and entrance requirements.

But there were big differences from school to school back when I did it. Coming from Quebec, I don't think I'd ever seen a 90 in Grade 12 or 13 (college). And I'd never heard of anyone getting a 90 a humanities course like English or Philosphy. Now (in Ontario at least), they are a dime a dozen.